ERP017 - RMM & PSA w/ Bill Stucklen

Welcome to Evolve Radio where we explore the evolution of business and technology. My guest today is Bill Stuckland, CEO of Stack Advisors. Bill and I discuss a specific portion of the managed IT space today. And Stack Advisors is a company that provides expertise to MSPs using Labtech and Connectwise. The reason I was interested in having Bill on for a chat was it seems counterintuitive that an IT company would outsource its internal management of its systems to a third party. But if you reflect on it, it makes a ton of sense for many MSPs. So enjoy the conversation today. If you enjoyed the show, be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcast from. Also, be sure to check out the webpage evolvedmgmt.com/podcast for show notes, links to my guests and to check out previous episodes. Now, let's get started. And joining us today is Bill Stuckland of Stack Advisors. Thanks for coming on, Bill. Thank you for having me. Really appreciate you taking the time to be with us and today we're going to chat a bit about the RMM and the PSA industry as it relates to the managed service providers out there. I think this is going to be kind of interesting if people are not aware of the services that you guys do, I think this might be an interesting topic. So, uh, hope, uh, hope it, uh, generates some interest. Wonderful. Thank you. So, let's, uh, give a quick background. Your, your company is Stack Advisors. You want to give us a kind of a two-minute rundown of your, your organization? Thank you for having me. Really appreciate you taking the time to be with us and today we're going to chat a bit about the RMM and the PSA industry as it relates to the managed service providers out there. I think this is going to be kind of interesting if people are not aware of the services that you guys do, I think this might be an interesting topic. So, uh, hope, uh, hope it, uh, generates some interest. Wonderful. Thank you. So, let's, uh, give a quick background. Your, your company is Stack Advisors. You want to give us a kind of a two-minute rundown of your, your organization? Yeah, sure. So we started Stack Advisors in uh 2011. Um, I had uh founded with my business partner an MSP in 2001. Um, and after many years of using uh, you know, PSA RMM tools, uh Connectwise Labtech, we became uh real experts on it. And as we, you know, got to the point of of starting to share with peers, uh what we were doing, we we recognized that there was a a need and an opportunity to branch off and start a second company with our our product knowledge. Uh with that company's focus being around um doing uh consulting and integration uh and eventually software development for these tools. So when we started stack, I went and took the role of CEO of that, um my business partner continued to stay with our with our MSP, um and we've really built the business there and uh, have expanded, you know, our services into providing full management of these tools, um for MSPs and IT service providers. It's interesting, I find the MSP industry is often a breeding ground for other companies that are solving their own problems. that you could you sort of alluded to a similar story there as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and and so I have a lot of colleagues who are now either in uh, you know, a master MSP type of role uh or have split off and branched out into providing an ancillary service to either fill a gap. Uh that that the tools don't provide or to or to provide a a better option or multiple options for for, you know, key components that MSPs tend to use on their day-to-day basis. Cool. So you really focus at stack on assisting uh managed service providers to better utilize their tools, their their uh Connectwise and Labtech specifically. Is that that I get from the story, that's really sort of the focus that that you had originally in splitting out that company then? Yeah, and when we started uh Labtech was our initial focus. It was very early on in the product's uh life cycle and you know, the simple complexity of what these tools have or take to actually get them set up and and working in an efficient manner. is really where our where why we started the company because we knew how to do this. And a lot of people really wanted to use the tools but didn't know how to use them efficiently. Didn't understand the complexities on them and didn't understand how to actually make the tools work together. And so, you know, that was our original focus. I would say within the first uh 12 months or so, we added in uh Connectwise services as well, um and and our focus has really been about not just one or the other tool, but aligning the two tools and, you know, putting best practices in place to to keep those two tools working efficiently and categorizing data. Uh to allow an MSP to, you know, really use everything that they're capturing from an analytical standpoint. Yeah, it's uh it's a major source of need that I see. I do uh obviously work with IT service providers and especially managed service providers. And one of the first things that I check when I start to snoop around in their environment in an engagement is the health of their RMM and their PSA. And it is kind of shocking that that the the norm really is that they're implemented, they're fairly well set up, but they're definitely not optimized and in certain cases they're incredibly noisy and just not producing the value that they should for the organization. Yeah, absolutely. And and that's really when, you know, when we get um when we generally are contacted by an MSP, there are a few things that I tend to hear right off and, you know, one is uh, we know we're not utilizing the tool to its fullest potential. We know there are features that we just are not using. And I also hear people say things like, you know, we don't know what we don't know. We don't know what those best practices are. And I really think that that's something that, you know, our team at stack really tries to do is to bring that best practice and evolve those best practices as as better ways of doing things or new features come out in the products. And you know, it it is it is very common that in that first engagement, you know, we see people that have started with the tool, have not committed the amount of time that's necessary or, you know, got trained. uh and received the, you know, the level of training to properly implement these tools and that tends to lead to the chaos and the noise. And uh eventually just turning things off because it's counterproductive. And and so that has become a a big part of what we do when we first engage a client is writing that and getting that set up and configured so that it's still capturing a large amount of data, but that data is no longer getting in the way of the MSP doing their job and providing, you know, really good quality customer service to their to their clients. Yeah, I deal a lot with data and analytics and uh really trying to expose the power that that can bring to a managed service provider. And one of the things that you you're kind of touching on that that I've talk a lot about is the signal to noise ratio. And if the the noise is so high that you can't really find the relevant data through all of that that junk and that that noise, you're right, people often just sort of turn it off instead because they can't really make heads or tails of it. Uh and really miss the value, right? Yeah, absolutely. And and, you know, there's there's operational efficiency and then there's the ability to go beyond that and do that that, you know, data analytics to look at what you're capturing. And what are trends in there? And a lot of times we'll talk about sort of the maturity of an MSP. You know, at what point is an MSP in their process? Are they still fighting fires? Are they doing what we tend to call that sort of reactive proactive style, right? Where they may receive an alert, but then they're reacting to that alert instead of providing a proactive service. And then that sort of next stage is when an MSP is able to really start to automate. You know, these two tools are are are heavily focused on giving an MSP the ability to automate and it it's difficult for those MSPs to automate if they don't know what they're supposed to automate. And so a lot of times that's what we also look for when we first engage. is where is the MSP at, how much automation do they have in place? And where are the areas that we can work together to to really fill that gap and take away some of the manual process that can be automated with those tools. That's great. One of the the things that really stood out to me about uh sort of understanding your organization and and and reviewing kind of what you did and how that that offering would be positioned, is on its face it seems a bit strange that an IT organization would be outsourcing their internal IT. At first it seems a bit of an odd idea, but if anything else, it kind of justifies or or further solidifies what the the role of an outsourced IT provider is. is that you do good work, um, you know, as a as an MSP, you're helping that client focus on their own business and their own goals. and not have to worry about the IT. And in a way, your service uh that you guys are providing kind of helps facilitate the same needs. Uh in in a way I see it as that old analogy of, you know, the shoemaker's uh children have no shoes. because you're so busy servicing servicing the other people that you're never really spending the time to look after yourself internally. Absolutely. And and that is uh that is, you know, what we used to talk about when we first started to engage was, you know, one of our our our conversation points was that as an MSP, you need to know your client's systems. You need to have your team needs to know the operating systems. They need to know how the network connects, they need to know how to deliver the service that you expect. And having to then turn around and understand the tools that that drive your business. you know, these are complex tools, they don't have to be complex. You can use them in a very simple way. But you're missing out on a lot of features. And so allowing us to be those specific tool experts for your team and fill that role uh is is really what's been driving, uh, you know, our growth and our expansion is is that, you know, it allows that MSP to focus on the things they need to focus on as far as the client facing piece. And um, you know, it it is it is interesting that an outsource service provider would outsource, you know, some of their internal systems, but we've seen a lot of success with our clients and and the ability for them to grow because they no longer have to pull a billable resource from the field to try to do things within Labtech or make adjustments in Connectwise. We can fill that role for them. And and it and it ends up making it more efficient. Um, you know, we long uh we long resisted outside help. Uh, you know, for the first, you know, five years of our MSP. You know, it's we should know this, we should do this. Um, and when we finally engaged with a consultant, um and and a business consultant, it made the world of difference. And since then we have always embraced the help of people who have become an expert on something specific. Whether that is, you know, financial analytics or a system tool or maybe even an outsourced, you know, a cloud service that can provide something that either does reporting. Um, you know, is a good example of a lot of sort of out outsourced uh services is a reporting tool or an analytics type of tool. And so for us, it starting a company to do that, was very natural because of what we had started to embrace as an MSP. Yeah, it's it seems very common in the industry. I don't know if this is probably persists outside of the the world of the managed service provider. But there seems to be a natural resistance or a cautiousness on sort of admitting that that you don't have all the answers. This is uh you know, getting through to people that you don't have to be an expert at all of this, all of the business, all of the technology. It's just too much for any one person or even a small group of people to be able to be experts on. So you do need to look for that outside help. Yeah, absolutely. And and it, you know, it really can make a big difference in the business. Because it allows you to to focus on other things that, you know, the client relationship. Training your team, teaching your team how to deliver services instead of teaching your team how to figure out, you know, to uh Labtech script or or, you know, how do you do workflows in Connectwise or something, right? It is it's about allowing a business owner or a service manager to focus on the service part and not the system. Right on. So you guys uh primarily focus on uh Connectwise and Labtech. Um, I guess exclusively, do you do you have uh um any growth plans to expand that as the market kind of continues to add additional tool sets? Yeah, uh we do have clients that are using, um, you know, as we started with Labtech, most of our clients, every one of our clients is using Labtech. We do have a few that we only do Connectwise management for. We have some clients that use Autotask, um as well. Um, but you know, the majority and the majority of the the sort of ecosystem that we fit in is that Connectwise business suite. Um, we've long thought that expanding into other tools and being able to integrate, you know, Connectwise has a has a very broad reach in the space. Uh, you know, there's a lot of competition for that RMM tool set. Um, you know, we tend to think that Labtech is one of the more flexible ones, um, which is why we as an MSP had chose it in the past. Uh, I I would like to expand, there's just been so much coming to us around this tool set, the growth of this tool set and the other products really that they start to pull in. Um, that it's kept us very busy. So, you know, eventually I would like to expand into those, uh, but right now, right now our focus is to continue with these with these two products. Uh and the other products that are integrating to it. Yeah, in a lot of ways you're you're good to focus on what you're experts in. And and maintain that expertise and not dilute the expertise in trying to capture a wider base of the market, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I mean, look, Connectwise is the big monster, right? And there's there's just still so much potential in it. that I, you know, my my goal is to capture more of that potential to get the systems in place to continue to have those long-term relationships. And continue to provide, you know, a more proactive service myself, right? You know, we help the MSPs be more proactive with their clients. And I need to stay one step ahead of that in providing proactive service to my clients as well. So we have a lot of expansion in in what we can provide and how we provide it. Um, using, you know, we use the tools as well and so that does keep us an expert on it. Um, you know, it also it also goes to uh the market has really changed. in the last, you know, three or four years. There's been a real consolidation. Um, you know, and with with the Connectwise piece, with Labtech and now with their rebranding and screen connect and all these other bits and pieces coming in. It really is following that same trend that we've seen, you know, with with the other big tools, right? Like the the Caseas are consolidating, Autotask, they're consolidating into a a offering that can provide a PSA, an RMM, maybe remote control, maybe reporting and analytics, maybe even an antivirus product. all of that sort of under one product umbrella so that you're you're paying one large company for all of these different services. And so, you know, had we had gone and branched out say to do a Casea, well now Casea is aligned, you know, with their own PSA tool, so it it almost would put us at a disadvantage to only know one piece of that product offering, whereas with the Connectwise business suite, because we use these tools and because we we manage for MSPs these tools, it really does keep us knowledgeable about what's happening, knowledgeable about what's coming and allows us to help those MSPs use that full suite even better. Yeah, it's uh kind of the focus of the show. One of the things I I like to to really dig in on is is the evolution of business and technology. And uh you kind of hit on one of the other questions I wanted to get to to get to is the evolution of this space. And the RMM and the PSA and in general tool sets for for managed service providers as well. Uh and uh I think I see things in a similar fashion to you that that there's a lot of advantages to having a consolidated tool set. Uh, you know, anytime I I come across uh organizations that are trying to utilize uh a best of breed solutions and trying to cobble together a solution. There are there's always that gap that leaves a little to be desired. And no single solution is perfect, but I find it's a lot easier to deal with the data and the integration. If they are more closely linked at the very least through an API, if they're not developed by the same the same company themselves, right? Yeah, and and that really, you know, you you hit on a on a keyword. Uh and that is API. And um, you know, the other thing that we do at at Stack Advisors is integration work. So helping a helping an ISV integrate their product into Labtech and Connectwise. So we have a we have a development team that focuses on that side. And what I've seen happening is in the last two years is that the first question I ask, any company when they approach us about helping them do an integration is do you have an API? Do you host, do you host data in the cloud, can I control the product or manage the product in your cloud through the API? And that is when we first started, that wasn't always the case. And now, I think it's almost necessary. It almost required to have that. Because if you're even if you're using the whole suite say within the Connectwise business suite, those products talk to each other through APIs. But that API also allows you to integrate other those other services, those other products, the other the other cloud, the data analytics. It allows you to bring in tool sets to fill gaps. Or fill gaps that are very necessary if you're in a vertical, you know, you specialize in providing services to a vertical. So I see more and more and more of these products doing that. I also see more and more standard uh, you know, typical hardware type of products like power protection. starting to embrace and utilize the cloud as a way for an MSP to manage not just stuff down the street, but stuff in another city, right? Stuff in another country. And and that that supports the trend, the other trend that I really see in the industry. And that's consolidation of of companies, right? Uh, you know, merge and acquisition and growth into larger organizations that can still provide that same quality of service that you get with a with a smaller size company. Yeah, absolutely agree. So, maybe if you could, uh, give us a sense of, um, the the type of organizations that are are are sort of a best fit for the services that that you provide. Is is it really just, you know, the one or two man shop that would get uh uh some benefit from engaging with you guys? Or, you know, is it kind of a five to 10 minimum and up from there that they really start to see the value? Do you do you have any uh any sense of what your your your market is? I mean, that that role. Yeah. Yeah, so, so when we, you know, one and two person shops, um, there becomes a a price point, right? And we try to keep our our prices as, you know, at a level that is affordable. Uh, but a one or two person shop, you know, may not just internally have the resources to really utilize what we do, right? And we have engaged with some small shops and seen them grow after the work we've done. Generally, when we engage, it is larger companies, right? They're larger organizations, um, and, you know, they tend to be in the five, 10, you know, maybe even 50 or 60 employee range, right? So there's a the the way that we go about with the engagement, um, with these clients is, it's always good to have somebody inside that organization that can be a point person, right? They don't have to uh, they don't have to know the products, right? We're the guys that know the products. But having somebody that can understand day-to-day some of those those challenges and bring those to us will allow us to really help them move forward with the tool set. Um, you know, we have seen that uh, a lot of times we used to look at the size of an organization based on the endpoints they manage. And and what was interesting was we found that many times the 500 endpoint uh company would need us a whole lot more than the 2000 endpoint company. And it that a lot of that has to go with the with the maturity of an MSP and the scalability, right? If you're managing 2000 end points, you have a lot more structure in place internally. You have to to be able to do that to do that properly. If you're small and you have a team of five people, every one of those people will wear different hats. They'll all have different needs to fill. And we're really good at entering in at that space. to say, okay, we're going to we're the guys that are going to wear the one hat, but by wearing that one hat, it's going to take a little piece of that off of everybody else's plate. And allow them to be more focused and more efficient on what they provide. Yeah, it would see the other benefit in that is uh getting things right before they grow. Something that I talk a lot about in with clients in managing uh the the business and the process. is if you don't get this stuff right when you're small, it's going to cause much bigger problems and pains when you start to grow bigger. Absolutely. It it is it is a lot more difficult to dig out uh of a pile of, you know, the information when you're when you're at a a much larger size. I mean, it's still possible. And, you know, sometimes we'll engage with people and it'll just be a complete reset. You know, they will say they're going to start from the ground up and build it right. Um, but yeah, being being in the in the position to scale and scale properly is really powerful. Really powerful. Yeah. Right on. Um, I guess uh for a takeaway for some folks that are listening to this and thinking, um, you know, maybe they need some support, maybe their environment could use some tuning. Uh and I I find it quite often some of the owners and operators are not necessarily the the the high technical person within the organization. And they do have to kind of trust that these judgments are being made at a lower level. Uh do you have any advice for some of those folks on what the things that they would look for in the tool set that may give them some indication that there's some optimization available? Yeah, absolutely. So I I always say one of the best things to do is to listen to your engineers complain. What are they complaining about? Um, because a lot of times that will will be a manual process, okay? Or or complaint about I just don't have enough time to get things done. And everybody's busy. But if you spend a little time looking at where you're busy or why you're busy. Um, you know, a lot of times we'll find that it's a manual process to go through and verify that tickets are closed. Or you have a lot of tickets that are coming in that can just be closed. They don't need any any time involved on it, right? That's a real inefficiency. And that's a really good way to identify if your systems are not configured properly and ways that you could you could make improvements there. Um, the other thing to look at is, you know, what's being done manually? You know, what are the kind of things that your guys do every day, every week, every month on a manual basis? Looking at the finance person is another great way to key in on where where issues may be. Um, when you start to look at time and engineer time and making sure that that it's consolidated on an invoice. A lot of times that can expose inefficiencies simply because the defaults aren't right. So a ticket, a new ticket, the defaults on that new ticket if they're not right, that can cause a lot of problems down the road when it comes to to time review and invoicing and invoice review. And that can be incredibly inefficient. Um, and so that's another way that we tend to tend to tell people to to look at. Um, and then the only other thing that I would say is just run a standard report that comes out of the your tool, right? all RMM and PSA tools have standard reports. Run that report and just look at it. You know, are all of your tickets in one category or maybe two categories? Or is there a category that has, you know, 10 times the amount of tickets that another category does? If you go back and look at those tickets, a lot of times you'll see, you know, they're just mislabeled. And part of that's process and part of that's what happens when the ticket's created. And so those are some ways that very simply that uh a company can look and find ways to improve their tool set. internally without necessarily, you know, it becoming a huge engagement. I and I think everybody will will identify those. I I mean, I find those sometimes in our own organization, you know, things constantly change. And that's why our engagement with clients are on a on a monthly basis, right? We do this reoccurring, we provide an MSP service to an MSP. And that is because things change and process changes. And you have to continue to keep your tools up to date. Yeah, absolutely agree. This is uh uh the most dynamic industry you can probably be in. So you got to stay on top of things. Yeah. Indeed. Indeed. Well, we're coming up to the end of the show, um, uh, is there anything you'd like to uh impart some wisdom on to to the the listeners? Or uh maybe let them know where they can follow up with you if they're interested in knowing more? Yeah, uh, absolutely. Thank you for having me. Uh, I really appreciate it. It's always great to uh to talk about what, you know, I've I've learned over the last 15 years in the MSP space. Um, I'm we always are happy to chat with people and see if there's a good fit for our services. Uh, if you go to stackadvisors.com, uh, we have a contact form. Um, you can fill that out and it just asks some basic information so when we have that conversation, we're we're we're started out on the same page. Um, and it's usually a 20, 30 minute call just to say, here's how we go about an engagement. Here are the steps we take and see if it's a good fit, uh, and proceed from there. And and a lot of times it's whether we move forward or not, it it it tends to be a very beneficial conversation. Just so people understand what the options are. Right on. Well, I appreciate the work that you're doing. Keep up the uh the improvements in the industry. Thanks, Bill.