ERP128 - Critical Thinking, Career Change, and Identity

Adam, welcome to the Evolved radio podcast. Thanks, Todd. Happy to be here. Great to have you. So, got a fun story of like, how we connected and this lens to kind of you giving us a bit of your background. You reached out to me on LinkedIn and I had to take a little bit to review your profile because it looked like one of those things of like, is this legit? This can't be real. This person, like, sounds far too impressive and like, all the qualifications and where you worked, obviously a big component of this. So at first I ignored it for, for a little while. Then I kind of recognized your name from a group that we were in. I was like, wait a minute, maybe, okay, maybe this guy is like legitimately reaching out to me. I was a bit confused. So that's sort of the fun way of like, you know, I was a bit suspect of, of you connecting with me on LinkedIn and, you know, gives you a good intro as to like, who are you? Why was I so. Of why you're reaching out to me. Yeah, that's a really great point, Todd, because I'm also finding that a lot of other people have been quite suspect and in particular people I've been trying to help. So I'm taking in stride. But to your point. I have recently left the Federal Bureau of investigation after 15 years as an intelligence analyst with them, where I covered and was responsible for cyber issues, counterintelligence issues like tracking people that they, what they weren't supposed to look into and they were stealing things that they weren't supposed to, and then even terrorism issues as well. So I have been responsible for all the national security related programs at the FBI and, and recently left where the US Government had a deferred resignation program. And I resigned as of late September, early October and then met you and yeah, sent you that sort of weird message on LinkedIn. So I appreciate you being curious about what's this guy from the FBI reaching out to me about? Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was, you know, I deal with a lot of conversations and security and things like that, so it felt related. But I suppose when the FBI comes knocking, even though I don't live in America, at first I was like, what the heck? This can't be real. Is this real? It was indeed real. So very cool. Really neat background. I wouldn't mind spending a little time on this just because I think it is an area that is just on its face, a little fascinating of the work that you do. Only so much that you can talk about it. But I guess what led you to the FBI and the security services. Part of that was that were you in security first or were you kind of more into investigation and then security and cyber became sort of the area of interest, I guess, which came first. Yeah. So I might throw in a wrench in your thought process. Thought process there and select. See none of the above. I actually was planning on being a doctor when I was in college. Wow, that is a hard right turn, isn't. Is isn't it? And at the time I was learning Mandarin Chinese and really enjoyed more about languages. This was like 2009, 2008 time frame, I think. And the bureau was going to college campuses and recruiting. And it just happened that one day I was actually planning on going to a hiring event for a biological research company, put more emphasis on that. And that was actually late at the FBI recruiting event and ended up being in the back of the room. But I knew that I wanted to do something more with languages. And at the time the bureau was hiring, had a hiring blitz. I think the phrase is for individuals who had experience in certain languages like Chinese or. Or Farsi or more than the Asian languages. So I decided to put in my resume on a whim because I really enjoy learning Chinese language. Not so I didn't really have a goal of getting into security or investig. It was more about serving my country and also the enjoyment I had around analytics and languages. So from that point on, everything just sort of lined up at the right time and it really worked out. But I think for me, looking back on it in retrospect, it was just following my intuition, my gut on. I really enjoy this and I'm just gonna go with it and see what happens. But yeah, no interest in security or investigation at that time. So the work that you did, I don't know how much you can share, but I guess you can probably talk about the broad strokes, I suppose, but like intellectual property theft, those sorts of things. Like what types of work did you do there? Yeah, yeah. So I started my career looking at terrorist financing and following, broadly speaking, where individuals were, where they were sending money and why. And because a lot of times, you know, if you are. Looking at different business opportunities and activities, money is a big component of that. So started off doing that, the money, as they say. That's right. That's right. And then from there I transitioned because of my Chinese language background, I transitioned to looking at intellectual property theft issues and mainly looking at technology transfers, how we characterize it. And I really enjoyed that experience because I began to develop more My strategic analysis mindset and skills, I really honed in on how I could look at the bigger picture from looking at the entire United States, on what was happening on specific economic issues and national security policy issues and technology trends, and looking at all the different intersections of everything. And it really excited me a lot. And at that point, actually I came to the aha moment, that. Big picture critical thinking and analysis is what I really wanted to do. And then from that, actually I began to transition to doing more mission management issues. So in the United States, the intelligence community, the US Intelligence community, there's a group called the Office of Director of National Intelligence. And that organization is essentially responsible for helping the intelligence community agencies work together. So they're all generally on the same page. They're working in sync, everyone's partnering with one another. So I transitioned my expertise in counterintelligence issues to that skill set because I really wanted to get the big picture experience on how to be more mission management focused. And then after that experience, I decided I would do something uncomfortable and learn about cybersecurity. I don't know, do you have much experience in cyber? I always say I know enough to be dangerous, so I suppose I know more than most, but it's not an area I consider myself an expert in either. But because I'm in technology and it like it just happens to be around me a lot. Yeah. So I've just, I've learned a lot on the fly, but it's never been a sort of an area of focus for me either. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, I'd say we, you know, we may have similar expertise there, but just because I enjoy the bigger picture. But when I transferred to the FBI Cyber Division, I got a lot of. Experiences where I had a hard time translating the technical side of, you know, the IP address and the router and packets and all these very detail oriented technical concepts. Whereas my mind was a little bit more conceptual and. Looking at themes and it was really challenging. But I dived into looking at how hackers do what they do, why they do it, what are their priorities and that sort of thing, and helping protect us critical infrastructure. And I really enjoyed that. And then I ended my career on engaging more with the private sector. And it was a good experience as well. Pretty cool. So I think that lends, well, actually to what we're sort of set to talk about here is. You kind of got to a point where there was a bit of a transitional moment for you. Right. And we were kind of talking about the way that this approaches in Many people's lives. And I think a lot of people, you know, listening to the podcast will sort of feel some familiarity with this of like, you get to some moment in your life where there's either an external event or just sort of a series of emotional circumstances that. That kind of send you in a different direction or make you at least very much reflect on, you know, where am I in life? Is this really what I intended to do? Like. Like, you know, this is it. This is the things that I'm doing. I think, to a large degree. Luckily and unluckily, this came to me quite early in my life and in my career. I worked basically in corporations and fairly significantly sized corporations even before I was out of high school. So worked. It was very much a part of my core identity of the work that I did, and then at some point recognized that it was probably too much of my identity. And that recognition was like, you know, you know, this. If I. I lost my job, basically I decided to quit. But, you know, it, it things have gone sort of sideways a little bit and realize, you know, I don't really know who I am or understand sort of what I want in life because all of that had previously been framed for the things that I wanted to achieve in my career. And that was a really big aha moment for me. And what I sort of feel was a transitional moment for me of like, okay, I need to kind of go explore the world, figure some things out and just spend some time with me and run into a bunch of wild experiences and grow a little, and then figure out what I want to do from there. And so I think that those types of moments, I think, are really important for people. And I see a lot of this in business. You know, people have run an IT shop for 23 years, and they're just like, I don't know, do I want to keep doing this? And if I didn't, what would I do? Right. So I'll maybe turn it back to you because I think this is obviously something that you think a lot about and probably had a very similar experience of, like, coming from your career. And then, you know, what do I do now? What does this look like? You know, how can I continue to grow and help people? Right. So what was your experience in that? Yeah, I mean, everything you're saying, I can relate to a lot, actually. Todd, where? On two fronts. The more recent one, actually, I'm still like, exploring, as you will, as a new business owner, what it's like to send a connection request on LinkedIn for example, and you know, seeing how that lands and like, do I really want to be to keep doing this, posting on LinkedIn and trying to talk to people and so forth. But to your point on, what really shifted for me on that pivotal transition earlier on was about actually mid point in my career when I was at the FBI. I was in a relationship at the time and it was going well and I really enjoyed my work as an analyst there at the FBI. But unfortunately I ran into a personal situation where. My identity was sort of wrapped in with this individual and, and the Bureau at the same time. But unfortunately their relationship ended. And after that I was kind of at a crossroads where I'm like, okay, I'm single now and I kind of knew who I was, but I really didn't. Most of my identity was wrapped up doing my best work and trying to really exceed expectations at the FBI. But then personally I was like, who am I? What's my purpose? What's, you know, what am I going to do from day to day? And so I started to really explore what that would look like. And I was encountering emotions of pain, sorrow, sadness, but also a little bit excitement like, oh, I can explore this. Actually, funny enough, I had a bucket list that I tried from break dancing to rock climbing to, I mean, a lot improv acting actually. But through that transition, it was really difficult to come around the corner and figure out what I was going to do next. And you know, the short version is I became very much an intuitive person, started to meditate to help me heal and move on. And then from there I came across an idea of a business that I wanted to do, but it just took a long time to really get to this point, to be honest with you. Coming, you know, trying to identify my purpose, which is to show and teach others how to integrate logic and intuition to make aligned decisions and then figuring out how do I make this into a business. So it took a long time, but the breakup really. Created a rift and a big pivotal moment for me. I mean, important growth points. I think a bit of that exploration and just sort of throwing yourself in different things for those experiences. Again, kind of similar in my experience as well. Right. So I think that what I was going to say is the lead in earlier aligned well with where I knew the conversation was going as well. You followed an intuition in your career that led you to a great place, had a great career, and had all of this success and growth in a professional capacity. And I think not to put words in your mouth, you can Tell me if I'm wrong here. I felt like that intuition just took you in a different direction at another moment. And I think it's interesting because a lot of what you talk about, what you do, revolves around intuition. And the part that I find really fascinating is sort of the. Usually people are intuitive or intellectual. Right. Like, I do behavioral profiling. I'm sure you guys, you've done tons of sort of study on this in your work as well. And those are usually opposite poles in behavioral profile. Right. Like, usually someone is very, I'll follow my gut, or, you know, I need to think through this. So you kind of having expressing sort of the marriage of those things and understanding how to leverage both sides of that, I think is a really interesting component that lends to another piece that we'll kind of get to there in a second. But as I sort of, sort of dump this word salad, how's that land with you of like, the following, that intuition and how it's been a major character in sort of the arc of where you've gone in your life? Yeah, it lands really well. And it's a. That's a good capture of where I'm at now and how I've gotten here. In particular. When that sort of life pivoting moment occurred, everything logically just did not make sense. I. Everything. Had you been logical up to that point? Yeah, I mean. I mean, yeah, very heavily, heavily used a lot of analytic. Frameworks and structures and critical thinking approaches. But I mean, there was always sort of a gut hunch of, oh, let me try this, like the Chinese language example of how I got into the FBI. But I was very much driven by. How I could solve a problem logically. And when I didn't have a. I had a support system, but my support system at the time was this one individual. And when that individual left my life, it. Really changed my mindset around how to. How to solve my problems, how to survive, how do I have fun now? And so the intuition part really started to grow at that point because it was really the only way that I could cope because everything else was thrown out the window and I didn't see any sort of solution at the time. And so I was just sort of following what it felt like. Oh, I'm like, okay, let's. This feels good. I mean, I was also trying to heal at the same time. So it was really much an exploration of what does my intuition feel like? Am I safe doing it? How am I going to use it to make decisions, so on and so forth. So I really started to hone in on more the intuitive side and what my body was telling me at that time. So this is perfect because that lends to one of the major themes that I wanted to talk with you on the here today is, is critical thinking. And I think that that is, you know, one of those frameworks that probably has a large logical component to it, but also I think is better fit when there is more of an emotional or intuitive element that is. Is at least sort of woven into it in some way. And I think this, this helps strike this balance because one of the things that drives me crazy is like, I feel that critical thinking is something that in my mind is difficult to actually teach people because it requires a bit more of that intuitive, that gut feeling, or at least kind of the wisdom or experience of seeing certain circumstances, understanding how you can approach it, what your options are. And what I find with business owners is this is an area that they really struggle with, especially sort of junior growing to senior staff as they're like, well, you know, they just don't seem to have great critical thinking skills. Like, they don't think through these problems the same way that I do. And part of my feeling is because those people don't also have 15 years of experience of encountering similar scenarios and they can't draw upon the experience, but yet, you know, you can't teach that either. Right. So what's, I guess, what's your broader thinking on, like, how do you learn critical thinking skills? And the how does sort of that, that, that line up between, you know, the objective and the subjective experience of seeing something and thinking through it? Gosh, Todd, do you want to run my business? Because that is a great insight. I have not heard many people capture it in that way, summarize it in that way, but we're on the same page. So I think first, if I heard you looking at it objectively, if I'm looking at a problem objectively, I could go a lot of different ways. I could relate to my previous experiences, as you touched on earlier, on how to approach the problem. But if you don't have experience solving that problem, there are a couple ways you could look at it. First, if you have a problem and you have. Some data that could lead into breaking it apart, you could start that way. So categorizing the issue in different themes, concepts, ideas, so you can break it up in little pieces so you can better understand it and have it more relatable to you, that's one approach. You could also look at it From a big picture and a small picture point of view. I like doing that often because my go to, as I mentioned before, is strategic big picture thinking. But often as you're looking at it from, you know, a forest versus the trees sort of mentality, you have to be mindful of how long you're looking at the big picture or the small picture and whether you get down a rabbit hole. I know oftentimes when I was doing analysis at the FBI, I started to and I would actually get into the flow state and really enjoy the analysis and the puzzle I had to be mindful of. I was going to many different directions and wasn't getting anywhere. So then you have to also incorporate the subjective side that you mentioned, which to me is more the emotional intuitive component. And so looking at it from the emotions and intuition part of the critical thinking. Framework or equation. Following how your body responds to data I found is a major factor in how you want to navigate the critical thinking equation in your mind. So for example, if I'm looking at, we'll say, okay, Todd, we'll go back to LinkedIn for example, for a minute as an example, if I want to send a connection request, I'll look at it. And that's my problem, I guess, actually honestly at the moment. And I want to figure out, you know, looking at it analytically, how do I want to approach it? Does the individual have the ideal target profile that I want to look at? Does the individual have a background where I feel I can relate to the person? Does the individual have like an issue that he or she may have communicated on LinkedIn so that, you know, logically looking at it that way you can see that makes sense. I'm going to approach that person now intuitively. You could incorporate, well, how do I feel in my body about assisting individual with a certain problem? Like if the individual has mentioned on a post or something that. You know, I'm having trouble doing an interview or I'm having trouble networking on so and so problem, you can look at it, how big of a, an emotional resonance does that have on you? I'm talking about me as a business owner with at that point in time, what ideas are coming up within my consciousness, within my awareness that I could assist that individual with? So often for me, intuition is not only how your body responds, but sort of the, the immediate sort of nudges or gut hunches that you get on how to approach helping that individual. And so the critical thinking equation or framework becomes even, I'll say more complicated or more simple Depending on how you want to approach it and what feels right to you in that current moment. Because the next day or the next week, how you approach the same individual could change. So that also. Either broadens the options of the critical thinking approach or it minimizes it, depending on where you are in that state. So maybe I'll just pause there. I know it probably said a lot of different things, but a lot of different complexities to it. Yeah, I almost see the difference between objective and subjective inputs on decision making. And sort of like understanding something I think is actually now that you talk about it, is maybe more of a spectrum than sort of previously a thought. Right. Because usually objective data is things you see, you can measure, you can point to subject data. Subjective tends to be more sort of like feelings, intuitions, those sorts of things. But, you know, maybe those intuitions and that sort of, that gut is data you can't see. But you still have to factor in and sort of figure out how to apply those things. That's sort of an interesting way to sort of think about this of like, because again, people that may be intellectual or more intuitive, one side or the other is not necessarily the right way. You know, I'm very much a logical thinker. Like I'm, I'm almost overly cerebral about things I've been told by people. And so yeah, I can make good judgments on good data and I always go hunting for data. But I know people that are incredibly good at what they do and have a huge track record of success and they're entirely intuitive. Right. So there's not necessarily one that's better than the other. So I think like not thinking them as polar opposites and thinking of it more of a spectrum, I think maybe benefits that of like they absolutely matter. Having, you know, the poles of those that spectrum to help you to complete sort of your picture of your understanding of things can be really helpful. And you know, I've described using data for your managerial detective, hat is how I describe it, right? Like, I think this is true. So this is my assumption, this is my thesis. How am I going to go sort of verify that some of these things are the case or that my gut sense is correct? Or if this data tells me this is true, do I know that that's correct? And like, who do I have to talk to? What do I need to know in order to validate those things? Right. Like it does take this full spectrum of information and inputs to make good decisions in order to not only satisfy your need to feel like you've made A good judgment about something, but also that you can point to something and validate. Like, yeah, this is why I did this. Because in my mind it's always been because it felt right. Doesn't necessarily feel like a good answer, but as I said, some people have been incredibly successful with that. No, you make a good point again. And I like the way you describe. Looking at critical thinking from as a spectrum point of view, especially when the data that you have available may not be telling the entire story and. You may be left with following your gut on what's telling you to do next, maybe telling you what to leave out, maybe telling you to reframe a data, a logical data point that you have, maybe telling you to leave it out altogether. But the the spectrum part, overview summary that you talk about really hits home for me, especially right now as a business owner, since I don't really have a strong business. Experience around having to solve a lot of problems. So I'm using more, you could say more or less the intuitive side, but looking at things strategically as well to help navigate my next decision. I think one of the points that you made of the impact that some of these changes in your life and therefore led to some of these decisions, I think is a really important one. Maybe we can talk a bit about how you know those things to be true because of potentially feelings or, you know, some objective data that you see around you. But I think it is really important, you know, in any person's life and certainly in business, that you, you, you're looking for some of those indicators that things are not working the way that they need to, to serve you right. This can generalize in, you know, certainly stress. I think any business owner will certainly have a level of stress, and some of that is good for you because it keeps you motivated, it keeps engaged. I've always joked if, you know, running your own business were easy, everyone would do it. It's not. Guess what? But I also know I learned very early lessons of entrepreneurship, of the hard lessons that I took note of in the people that I saw as mentors in my career, including my own dad and some CEOs, in the companies that I worked for, where a lot of damage was done to their personal life in pursuit of business. And that was something that I was very conscious of protecting myself against. I want to do well. I want to grow a business. I want to help people and be successful, but not at any cost. And that was always front of mind for me. So I've always been very sensitive of, like, how much is too much and not kind of giving myself an out because, oh, well, maybe this is too hard. Maybe it'll impact things and be negative. Right. I feel like that's a difficult line to balance between, of wanting to be able to pursue things and be successful, but recognizing, like, my body is starting to scream at me and, you know, it's showing up as, you know, panic attacks or, you know, God forbid, like a heart attack or something like that, or your family starts to fall apart. Right. Because you're not paying attention to your family. You're not available. I think, like, you had a similar experience of this, of, like, your. Your professional and your personal life, you know, kind of had a bit of a cross in between them. And part of the reason that I go down this line of thinking is like, you're simply just mentioning the fact that you've started to spend more time meditating and things like that, of looking after, you know, the temple a little more, of reflecting on what makes me a good person and keeps me balanced despite my need to pursue things that challenge me and grow me. Right, yeah, that definitely resonates as well, especially as I'm trying to figure out how to balance all the different responsibilities as a new business owner, especially as a solopreneur, and being mindful of not being spread thin and having to. Keep track of every little task and making sure I'm not going crazy. And so everything you're. You're talking about definitely lands with me, especially as I figure out, like, my posting routine on LinkedIn, for example, or what am I going to do Monday through Friday, even maybe sometimes on the weekends, but making sure that I'm not doing too much altogether in the very beginning stages, so I don't get burned out, essentially. But, yeah, I definitely feel what you described right now, especially as I'm looking to build more momentum going forward. What would you advise to someone kind of in a similar position to maybe what I described is like, hey, I've run this business for 20 years. It feels kind of hard. And maybe I question sort of, is this worth it? How do you. How would you sort of advise that person to sort of reflect on where they're at, what they want, and potentially how they should move forward? Yeah, that's a great question. And I can relate to that as well, because I did that sort of earlier this year in 2025, when I was contemplating leaving the FBI. So, for example, one first step, I would advise is you could look at it logically. Looking at that critical thinking logically, you. Consider. What have I accomplished so far and what do I still want to accomplish? So looking at more that goal setting frame of mind is probably an easy go to direction you could explore. From there you could build upon that answer if there is more to do that you, you could then break it down further and look at different priorities that surround that goal and how it may impact your life in different areas. So how would this decision affect my family? How would it affect my day to day situation with how I feel from day to day? What's the energy is it going to take to do all these responsibilities? Do I have the resources to continue. Making this decision and moving forward? And then from there you could break that down even more and say, is this goal that I want to do. Align with my purpose and what I meant to do while I'm still here on planet Earth, for example, and making sure that the vision for yourself and any sort of. Next steps that you decide to do is continuing to be in alignment with that. And then you can make it even more complex or fun. As I say, have a puzzle and integrate more of your intuitive side into the intuit and look at it from. You know, what's my gut telling me? Is it telling me to go in a certain direction over another that may not logically make sense? You could also look at how your body is responding. So these different decision points that you have, are you excited, are you sad, are you frustrated with certain decisions decision points that you have come up with? So there really is a lot. The puzzle just keeps getting larger and larger. Like you said earlier, like that spectrum, it can get cumbersome if you don't apply certain approaches. So just to recap there. I would advise someone. If they are a seasoned business owner and they are wanting to figure out what they do next, I would first start with that long term goal and see if it's still in alignment with their vision and their purpose, and then break that down from there into subcomponents where you could look at impacts of that decision to their life and others and to the globe writ large. And then as another component, incorporate more of your gut and your body's responses to these certain or these new frameworks that you've created to think through your decision. So there's like a lot of different layers you can add on after each. Round of of exercises. Great. I imagine there's many people in business in general, but certainly in the federal space that are either leaving on their own accord or not, I suppose as well. Any advice for them in. Your initial journey in this or potentially how you can help some of those people with your own experience. You know, if there is a person in transition, I think it would, would provide similar guidance to a business owner then. I think, though, for especially the federal workers that I'm supporting right now on transition, identity is really baked in to the mindset and embodiment of what they're leaving behind or what they could be leaving behind. So I think approaching that challenge is going to be key. Looking at how will my identity shift? Why perceive myself? What do I need to do to keep going when my identity changes? What's going to excite me on the other end of the, the journey once I leave? You know, how do I keep momentum? Do I have a support system in place to keep me going? All those different areas I think are really important to consider, especially if you're, you know, if you are leaving the federal government like I did, Identity is, I think, a critical component. Okay. And if people wanted to connect with you, continue the conversation, understand a little more, get some further thoughts from you. Just DM you on LinkedIn, I guess. Any other avenues? Yes, it would be a lot easier if someone could DM me. But yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. My moniker there is Adam R. Dickinson. D I C K I N S O N on LinkedIn. And yeah, feel free to, to reach out there. That's kind of where I am housing my business operations at the moment. Perfect. All right, thank you so much.