ERP025 - Digital Entrepreneurship w/ Tim Kane

Welcome to Evolve Radio where we explore the evolution of business and technology. Today's a bit of a family episode as I'm joined by my brother Tim Kane. Tim is the co-founder and CEO of My HSA, which is a software company. that facilitates insurance brokers offering health spending accounts to their clients and employers to their employees. Tim's evolution from a brick and mortar business owner to a digital entrepreneur is an interesting one and his journey has been filled with hard lessons about building a software business as a non-technical founder. His passion and determination and strong focus on customer service have served him well. As a result, Tim and his co-founder Steve have a growing business that has moved from two people in a database to eight plus staff and a fast growing client base. If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast from. Also, be sure to check out the webpage evolvedt.com/podcast for show notes, links to my guests and check out previous episodes. Now let's get started. Joining me today is Tim Kane, CEO and co-founder of My HSA. Welcome, Tim. Thank you, Todd. Appreciate you having me on the show. And full disclosure, Tim uh does share a last name with me and is my my brother. But uh has a very interesting story on his evolution from uh sole proprietor uh business owner and uh moving towards a uh digital business and a working on a software company. I figured it was a an interesting topic. I've heard you interviewed in another spot and was really fascinated by the depth of the story and and your experience in in how your uh your business and your role in your business has changed uh transitioning to your starting a software company. So I really wanted to dig in and explore some of the lessons learned as a non-technical person. who has founded a software company. Um I think it's kind of interesting. I see this as a a more of a trend. I don't know if you've seen this in some of your other peer groups and and business owners that you know. But I I definitely see a lot of people that are coming from the traditional business world and moving into something that is a bit more digital, whether it be software or starting something online. Is that uh something similar that you've seen as well? Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think I I don't think anybody and knowing what I know now would actually choose to go into the software industry. But the software industry when you're starting a software or tech idea, you start to literally fall into the tech world. You know, I'm actually from an insurance background and I fell into insurance. Uh my family was in insurance and it was a logical place for me to to be in. How I transitioned into the software was I think like a lot of other people is they had a great idea. And learned that there's so much with respect to technical knowledge and and software and innovation out there that can make great ideas even better. So I don't think there's a lot of people that are actually trying and venturing into the software, I just think there's a lot of people with good ideas and innovation and technology gives them the the know-how to be able to exploit and build those ideas. So you mentioned that you you kind of fell into this as well. So this is not something that you necessarily envisioned in starting, but it was more based in the idea of what it could be. And it happened to be digital, is that a more accurate way to describe it? Todd. You know me, I wasn't a technical person growing up. I like technology, but I've also have a little bit of ADD and it would fall off quite quite quickly. I wasn't heavily involved with technology. And how I got into the technology business was absolutely by mistake. I'll tell you a little story again. I I tell this story a lot, I'm going to tell it one more time. I I owned a property and casualty insurance brokerage in Calgary called BKI Risk Management. And BKI was it was actually my father's business that had a spin on it when I took it over. I he he had sold it and I took it over and we decided that we wanted to do do things differently. So we migrated from a personal commercial insurance brokerage to strictly commercial. And then one day through uh a run in with my benefits broker, I decided that with my property and casualty insurance that I was selling, it would be logical for me to go out and buy benefits. I thought benefits would be quite easy to sell for our company and and we just had to be in that space. So we went out and looked for a benefits company that was for sale. And if you know anything about benefits. Usually there's not a lot of client contact, the clients aren't going to move. There's not a lot of transition within it, so it's quite easy to keep. And in that, it's actually quite hard to find a brokerage that's for sale because the person can literally run it out of the basement. till they're 80 and make more reoccurring revenue than than to be able to sell it and make whatever the multiples of of or revenue that are out there. So fortunately or unfortunately for us, for myself, I was a bit of a go-getter. I wanted a benefits brokerage and I was going to get one regardless of what the cost. So we ended up buying a brokerage, it was about a hundred and, you know, $40,000 of revenue. The the interesting part of this benefits brokerage is that there's an absolute reason why it was for sale. The person had built this health spending account. And for those who don't know what a health spending account is, I'll I'll give you a little background on it, it's a CRA approved method in which an employer can fund fund their employees benefits tax-free. And so rather than buying insurance, you could give an employee a Monday to go go out and spend on health benefits, it's tax-free to the employer and tax-free to the employee. It's actually been quite separated from the employee benefit space. But in this particular instance, the company that I bought, the broker had the innovation to say, this should be included within the employee benefits model that he built. So he actually built a Microsoft Access database for facilitating these paper transactions, these health spending accounts. And so in looking at this model, we saw where it made sense when we purchased the brokerage, we saw where it made sense. It was incredibly easy to go out and sell benefits and also sell these health spending accounts. My partner Steve, who's my partner in my HSA, used to sell benefits for us and when he was going out with the property and casualty insurance brokers, he had one mandate. Sell one of these health spending accounts because they were quite easy. They were good for a startup and great for a door opener. But in buying that and recognizing that this is a necessary part of our business, we also realized that this was an absolute nightmare to administer. It was Microsoft Access and true story, we actually had an ad on Kijiji at one point in time when the old business owner left. saying that we need somebody to help our Microsoft Access database. We put an ad on Kijiji and said we needed a developer. Somebody replied and said, yep, for $500 an hour, I'll administer your Microsoft Access database. 500 an hour. 500 an hour, that's how specialty it was out there and it was the only response we got on it. So looking at that, we said, we got there's got to be a better way. Let's get rid of it. But we didn't really want to get rid of it. We had clients that were attached to it. So we ended up looking for some alternative solutions out there and there's some providers out there that provide these health spending accounts as a as a side business. It wasn't really part of their pure technology, but it was definitely part of it. And so we tried to get rid of it by looking at these other ulterior platforms out there and providers and eventually came to the conclusion that, you know, this Microsoft Access database. regardless how shitty it was, was state of the art. It was awesome. It worked quite well. So rather than going in our reluctancy and keeping this Microsoft Access database, we said, you know what? Why don't we build another platform? And that venture and that that got myself into the software business. Now build another platform to me was how do we build another platform? From my standpoint is go out, find a developer and get them to build it. So we actually built the My HSA platform, took a million dollars of business that we ran under a Microsoft Access database, built a software within 30 days and this will show how much I don't know about software and rolled the entire book over to the new platform that we had built in in 30 days. Needless to say, that was an absolute nightmare. The how we transition from one to the other is that Steve said no. Steve was was actually Steve is my partner in my HSA and he was actually working on the benefits. He said, no, we have to transition this slowly. I don't transition anything slowly, I turn one on off and the other one on. without Steve knowing what happened. So essentially we turned into a software company literally overnight and understood what it was like to be a software company, which was painful at best. It was if you can imagine bugs multiply them by a million, that's what we're living on a day-to-day basis. So that that must have been uh a pretty eye opening experience when you realized the the complexity of software. I you're right, like I can't imagine, I'm sure hair on people's neck stood up when they said you uh you built a platform in 30 days and went production with it. Uh was was it uh risky for the business? Like did it cause a lot of a lot of issues or was it more internal stuff wasn't working? Like what was the visibility to to the external client base? Uh it was a nightmare all around. It was if anything that could go wrong, we had it. There was clients that were upset. We had couldn't track. And remember, I'm from a brick and mortar business. And so when somebody says to me, I'm going to build you a product within 30 days, I'm expecting that it's that product's going to work. And the naivety but also the great part of what we built is that we didn't know that that what that naivety was, we didn't understand that software doesn't work that way. So turning it on was actually crazy, I mean, it was nightmare. There was everything that could possibly go wrong happened. But in that chaotic gong show that we we had within that 30 days, we were able to quickly build what we needed. And the only reason the best way to build something is when somebody yelling at you all day. If you want to make developers work, if you want to make the thing the the model start to work very well, you have to be yelled at. Unfortunately, especially in the software industry. You need that those users to start telling you what you need and be able to adapt and build it. So this is fairly this is fairly similar to what a lot of other people say. is you know, most uh especially digital entrepreneurship is you you jump off the cliff and start building the plane as you're going. And even though you had a functioning business, you still followed the same model by throwing yourself off a cliff and building the software on your way down, right? The only reason the only thing that was different between myself and others that people actually know the tech industry. is I came running and I didn't know there was a cliff. Right. That's the the fundamental difference between it. You know, it's a funny story, there's a company actually out of Edmonton, it's a tech company, they've been in beta for 15 years. And they we told them how long we'd been in beta and they couldn't believe it. And I actually responded to him and said, what is what's beta? We didn't even know what beta was until a couple years ago when a tech company told us we should have done that before we went live. Which in that, it's kind of cool because you can either sit there and stick in beta and hope to heck you get out of beta one day. Or you can choose the my HSA route. Not definitely not saying this is the route that everybody needs to go or should go, but it definitely works because there's no such thing as beta when people real life clients are affecting your brick and mortar business. by having this piece of technology that's a very small percentage of it. So obviously um the the experience didn't didn't uh cause uh material risk to the business. I mean it did in the time, but it it didn't sink you guys. So uh what were the lessons learned and what do you think was was the sort of the the key factor to that? not crippling the business as you guys made this this pretty uh monumental shift. I think because users and I I use the term users now, I'll say real life people are they love change, they love watching it evolve. And they they wanted to see what happens next within the my HSA platform. because we're actually building something that people wanted. It was definitely need. And and people wanted to see how it went. And you believe it or not, when you're building something, you think it's really chaotic. And it is. But users are are are more they're they're more inclined to help you try to build what they want rather than cripple it. And so while it was affecting our business, the people that loved it really loved it. And uh, you know, I think I I'm sure I've shared this with you Todd before is we actually had chat or we use chat in the my HSA platform. And chat was when we built that thing within 30 days, we talked to the developer and the developer said, you have to have chat. You're a technology, technologies cannot have fun phone numbers. And so we launched chat and I totally wholeheartedly disagreed with everything that they were saying, but we launched chat. What we actually started to use chat as is a building tool. And if you have chat and somebody's pissed off at you and they come into chat, they're going to tell you why they're upset. But usually there's probably 60% of the people that are going to try and use it. are going to tell you how it could be better. So we started using chat rather than a tool to tell us how bad we were to actually tell us how good we were. And what we could do to make things better if that makes sense. So we actually reverse flipped it rather than taking being a query and being a help desk. We used it as a building tool for our business. So we still to this day operate chat. And uh and we know the best we always say when they're in the my HSA office. The best chat the best chat day is is when nobody chats. That means we're doing something right. So our tools and our resources are put towards to make sure that we don't have any chats. Yeah, it's it's a an interesting model. Like a lot of other software companies will do feature requests and then they kind of scan through those feature requests and eventually pick a few that are seem to be popular and and and kind of work on those. But you as you said, you were using the live chat as as a more interactive way to build that feature set. Like what were the things that people struggled with, what are things that people didn't understand, you use that as as direct feedback to to uh improve the system based on live interactions with the users. I think it's that dedication and I uh uh to the user base. I think um probably rewards their loyalty even further, especially if the requests that they're they're they're making are so tangible within a short period, they seem to show up and they're like, wow, they're actually really listening to me. Totally. Totally. In fact, I'll tell you a story about that. When we first started up, there was a company out of Colona that had an advisor that absolutely hated me. Uh he uh he called. When I was trying to launch the my HSA platform and the scariest part of the my HSA platform. is when I sold my business, my insurance business, my brick and mortar, went into the software business, they built it. And then everybody was looking at me going, now you have to sell it. And I'm going, oh my God, now I have to sell it. I don't know anything about a health spending account. Definitely don't know anything about technology. And now I have to go sell it. So the logical part of trying to sell it was going on LinkedIn and spamming everybody I knew and everybody I didn't know. And there ran into the a guy, his name was Lyle. I won't mention his last name in case he listens to this podcast. But he he I added him on LinkedIn, sent him an email, asked him if I could show the system. And Lyle had it in him, he found my phone number, he called me up and he ripped on me for about 45 minutes about adding him on LinkedIn and spamming him. And he then we got into the model after he got his outburst out and told me and he told me it's never going to work. And I said, why is it never going to work? And he said, because it doesn't matter what happens within the system or what you guys are trying to innovate. The HSA models out there, the spending account models from an advisor standpoint is trading nickels. Meaning that it would cost him too much effort and too much time to be able to facilitate a program of spending accounts. whether that's wellness or HSA and to make any money on it. So we actually built a a feature in the system that is called the Lyle factor. And what the Lyle factor does is shows a broker how much time they're spending on the system compared to how much money they're making. And every time that a broker, we look at those in our analytics and we try to to build it to make it shorter. So the Lyle factor does not exist. But it's always been a strong terminology of mine is trading nickels. Very cool. That's another interesting point of taking people's direct feedback and weaving it into the system. I love it. Uh you mentioned something that I I I did want to explore a little further is the sales and marketing angle of moving from a brick and mortar to something that uh is a bit more ethereal. Uh how did that influence the the way that you sold and and marketed the the organization uh from the traditional going out meeting, talking about uh insurance, which generally any business owner has a a pretty good comprehension of. to now moving towards, you know, uh uh this this brokerage piece and uh the uh the digital contracts and HSA, which people may or may not be familiar with. What was your experience in switching from something that was a bit more of a tangible uh or understood product to something that was that was a bit more digital? Well, I think digital, digital's easy. I always say that. We actually built and we're not proud of this now, I'll tell you that right now. But we have never spent $1 marketing my HSA to anyone. We've actually built the entire platform and every broker that we've had on there, every advisor, MGA, TPA that are on the system are there because of either referral, which we get a lot of referrals now. But when it originally started happening, it was a tool. It was LinkedIn. LinkedIn was my tool to build my HSA. And the rationale behind it was is I was from the insurance industry. But I knew nothing about the benefits industry and actually if you look at insurance, benefits, life, financial products are very separated from the PNC. They just don't mesh together, especially in Canada. But what LinkedIn had was an absolute wealth of people that were on in the benefits industry that I could get in touch with. I always said to people that if I had the tools like I had when I was building the my HSA platform. I never would have sold my insurance brokerage because I would have been the most wealthy insurance broker in the world. And there's so many contacts that you can get just by a digital touch. Joining conversations, spamming. Uh true story and this is this is one of the funny things when we were building it. I was actually banned from LinkedIn for a point in time for spanning people. They actually shut down my account and said, we're on trial. Had too many complaints about you. But after that opened up, I just kept on going. And it was one by one by one by one and that's actually how we built it. Now, how a company started out of Calgary that started in first in a board room of an insurance brokerage and then we started in Waves coffee shop, which is down on 17th Avenue. Now we actually have a physical premise in there to build a company with two guys that sat there knew nothing about computers, knew nothing about software and kept on pushing the envelope and to be able to build this company that's now across Canada. We're definitely going to move into the US in 2018. By sitting here and not really knowing much about the business, it proves how cool having digital tools are. because it opens doors that you didn't think the doors could ever be open. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. It it's it's kind of this expansive world that really changes once once you start to become familiar with it. Uh you you mentioned not like the the it not being a physical product, yet you have a physical office. Uh is it something I'm curious uh from early on when it was just you and Steve, you guys had an office. And I was always mystified by this, I figured if it's a digital product, you know, to minimize your costs on startup, like you a lot of people just work out of their basement and you guys chose to to have a physical space to work from. Was that just a hangover from having a a brick and mortar business and traditionally feeling like you had to go to the office or was there some other uh some other thought process in maintaining a physical space? It still is. When I sold my company, which was BKI and just a little background on that. I never meant to sell BKI, I was approached one day while I was falling into the software industry by one party. And we ended up negotiating and and uh taking my experience of do I really want to do this and do I want to be a software company or do I want to stick with my bricks and mortar company? And went through that process and eventually ended up selling it. Now the worst thing for me was that, you know, you got to you got some money in the bank. You got all the freedom in the world. You can do whatever you want, but you don't have to go to work anymore. And walking in and seeing filing cabinets and people and all the things that were necessary. made me feel about good about going good or bad about going to work, they were all there. When my HSA was started, it was Steve and I. And it's actually funny if anybody ever comes by our office, if you know what the Marlo Loop district is in Calgary. It's this little house, it's a commercially owned house and very expensive taxes. And at that point in time when we were building my HSA, Steve and I used to sit, it's about 1100 square feet for this building. It's not a big building. But it looks big when two guys have two desks that are pushed right up together and sitting there on the computer. That's all we had in the entire office. But it gave me the serenity to say, I got enough to go to work, I got enough to start building this company. It was enough brick and mortar. Because when I got rid of all the filing cabinets, all the people and all I had was my laptop, that's a very, very scary transition for somebody that knows nothing about that. My whole world was on Dropbox. So I I guess it was a bit of a psychological attachment of I'm I'm still in business. I have a business because I have this physical structure that surrounds me then, right? Still is. Yeah. Interesting. Still is. Yeah, I'm not a big virtual guy, I'm not a big work from home guy. I just couldn't do that and I know some people can do that. But it's a mental thing for me. I need a purpose. Yeah. No, I I think it's important to to separate even your physical space if you do work from home, you you need that that separate physical space that just puts you into the work mentality. So I I I can respect having a a place to go to work. Because then you're there, you're getting to work, right? I think maybe the only part you missed in that that whole strategy is you probably should have just set up in the garage. Since you were starting starting a tech company, right? Yeah, tech companies. Well, you know, they all have big budgets. We have a small budget. We have a big budget for what we have in the office. So we got to blow it somewhere. That's right. Uh I guess this is kind of a broad question that that I I think there's a a ton of answers here, but uh maybe just think of it in the in the context of someone. who is not necessarily a technical person, similar to your position, but has a great idea for a business that that uh potentially is a digital product or something that starts online. Uh what were some of the important lessons or things that you would have done differently as a non-technical person starting a software company? We were a bootstrap company. We have zero external funding. But every VC that we've talked to, every people that have come to talk to us for any other reason. The the fundamental core values of what they look for is they look for the the sales guy, the operations guy and the technical piece. And my HSA until actually I guess it would have been December of 2016. We actually had entirely an outsourced tech uh uh team. And in December, we made the point in time, I think it was after talking to these people, we said, geez, you know, we got to check these boxes. And literally I think we just did it to check the boxes. Because the business was operating the way that it was operating. And it was operating well. But bringing in tech in house was life altering. I mean, it's the coolest and the best information that we got from anybody is get it in house. And we actually weren't really doing it because we thought we needed it, we were doing it to appease somebody that was saying it had to be done. But in a technology company, you don't necessarily need somebody that knows the technology to found it. I don't believe that at all. But you definitely have to be have some sort of digital strategist to take the people that don't know anything about technology. They got to have some rationale and reason for it. I swear the reason that we've gotten so far is because when somebody comes to me with internet explorer version two. I'll be taking it to the tech guy saying it has to work on this. And the tech people are going to can't. And I'm going it has to. So we support every browser and I think of it like a like a uh a real person that's really operating, looking at the system. They need it to work on everything. So you got to have that surrounding purpose. But if you take every suggestion from everyone and you don't have that digital strategist, the the advisor to say, this will work, but this is what's going to happen. It gets you in a lot of trouble and we actually have a perfect example that we rebuilt the my HSA. We call it 1.0. We rebuilt it with a digital 2.0 version. And that was it was literally it happened we launched it last April and it was almost a nightmare of of well, it was a nightmare. But it was almost of catastrophic proportion. You can't have that outsourced entirely team, you have to have somebody on the ground that knows about that technology or you're going to you're going to be behind and falling apart. And that's literally what happened to us with us. We got through it like we always do. But that was the biggest learning lesson for me is I would never do that with somebody that's contracted outsource that says, I'm going to help you. Because there's that at point in time, they're going to stop helping you and they're start helping themselves. And that's not a cut against anybody in the outsource world. I'm just saying that you do need to have those eyes on your team looking out for your best interest. And that part of it we didn't. Sorry, go ahead. So if you're starting as the CEO, then the CTO is is often a good offset, right? Because I think in a lot of uh tech companies, it's usually the CTO that's starting and they're often they're often a little too focused on the technology and either don't know the business side or the sales side of things. This is really just an inverse of that equation, right? So you're, you know, the the CEO and the CTO and the COO are pretty primary positions and maybe beyond that, you're maybe hiring some EA staff or some administrative staff. But before you really get too far, you probably want to cement those those few positions at the executive level. Yeah, let me break it down for you. When we were I was actually flying to Colona about a month ago and there was a guy that I went to school with who had built a tech company. And he was the CTO. And they've still to this I think they were four years in operations, haven't had a sale. So they're actually trying to get some money to have a sale. And where I'm going, geez, we have all these sales, we're trying to scale, we're trying to get into the US. We're growing like crazy. They haven't even got off the ground. So the three roles within a tech company is definitely the CTO. They're the digital strategist and I'm not talking a manager. I'm talking somebody that can see the vision. Can see between what the CEO is saying, the COO is saying and be able to to break that down a little bit from technical level. You have the COO that says, whoa, we got to wait on this. We can't launch it. It's got to be that a little bit of perfection to make sure that you're not going out and looking stupid. And then you have to have the CEO and you don't have to call them that. But the guy that says, let's just launch it and figure it out later. I think those are the three roles within an organization that make a tech company work like a brick and mortar presence. But they have to be there. In other companies in brick and mortar, you can survive with just the president. But in a in a tech company, unfortunately, I don't think you can wear all those hats. Yeah, I think it's important to to have those different areas of expertise and those the uh everyone plays a different role. And even to to what you alluded to is the behavioral differences within the organization. You're very much uh the action oriented and and we're moving forward today and and very uh task focused and and achievement focused. And having someone that offsets that with a little more patience, a little more uh uh wider view that that can uh you know, pull the reins on on someone pulling forward all the time. Every once in a while. I think that's an important balance. Because, you know, if you're running at 100 miles an hour all the time, you can potentially get yourself in trouble. But if you're too cautious to move forward and not execute on things, then you may not get anywhere. So that that balance is I think really critical for a growing organization. Do you think you would ever go back to a physical business? Or have you now sort of seen the light and converted to to digital? Um never say never. But I have a very strong love for technology. And what's cool about technology is you can take a business or an idea and you can blow it up in the fashion that. I'm sure some people that can build a uh brick and mortar can build it up and blow it up the same way that I envision that I have or I can in a tech company. But there's a lot of there's a lot of this may go back to my actual personal feelings regarding my myself. I have to be there, I have to be front and center. And actually I was just telling a story the other day, the coolest part about a technology company from my perspective. is that in my insurance brokerage, I was a lone soldier, I mean, I did everything. I could photocopy at 11 o'clock at night, I could give you a pink card, I could go over there, sell you policies, interpret them, I could do absolutely everything. And I relied on the fact that if the world imploded and we had no more employees, we'd still be in business because I'd know how to do everything. In technology, I don't have I don't actually know how to do everything. And I'm somewhat discomfited by that, but I'm also comforted by that that I need to have other people. I need to have a team to be able to build on it. And so in a technology company, I'm not able to blow myself up and I that's speaking personally that I can't do everything. I can't be the the Tim Kane insurance or Tim's my HSA, I rely on the other people in that. And to go back and build a brick and mortar company, I think from from my standpoint, it just wouldn't work. Because I couldn't build it the way companies need to be built. And I think I'd end up burning myself out. Do you do you find that it running a digital business has has altered your life at all, like I think a lot of people dream of having a more digital business. So they have a little more freedom. They can move around and not necessarily be attached to a physical office. Despite the fact that you guys choose to have a physical office, do you find that it it creates any any more freedom or or changes your life at all having a digital business versus brick and mortar? Very very much so. And and the cool part about my HSA is as I'm sitting here doing this podcast with you, we're growing. Like our business is operating, we're actually growing. There's things going on that I have nothing to do with right now. Now, I what I won't say is that business is still a business. You can't just build the digital product. and decide to walk away and it's going to sell itself. It doesn't happen like that. I don't care what anybody says out there. Digital products don't sell, there's still people behind them that make the decisions. And make them the companies that they are today. So your time is, yes, I have more time, absolutely, I have more time. But your time can be used doing different things. to be able to grow the business and and help the business. than in a brick and mortar presence. Does that make sense? Yeah, always about shifting priorities. More than you know, you're not the type of person that's looking to have time to kick back, you always want to have something have something to achieve and chew on anyway, right? Totally. And I always say to my actually I was talking to my wife who's been so super supportive of my my journey in the tech industry. And I come home to her and I say, I have nothing to do. And she says, well, isn't that a good thing? For for once in your life, for the first time in your life, Tim, you have nothing to do. And I'm sure I have something to do, but when the tax are building it, when we're putting apps out. When there's no people coming into chats, sometimes I have nothing to do. And it scares the living crap out of me because I lose that purpose, but then I can go sit in my house. You know, my house in the my HSA house and walk in and and have a coffee. And I'm not that kind of guy. And just try to but the more time you've able to spend on the business, makes the business better for everybody. And for the first time in my life, especially after December, when we hired our our CEO. I'm able to strategize and look for new things to do in the business. rather than constantly working on the business. Or in the business. Yeah. So the the field as a whole, you know, you're you're kind of split this line between uh health care and software and insurance. Uh either that field as a whole or picking one individual. How would you feel that the the field is evolving? What do you what do you see is kind of the three to five year shift in in how things are moving? Um my sense of this uh to maybe give you a lead is is uh a lot of this is becoming digital. And now we have, you know, potentially smart contracts on the internet. You see some of that influencing. What's what's your view on on what's what's going to be changing in your field over the next few years? When we first built the my HSA platform up until I could tell you the exact date. Everybody looked at it and said, this is kind of cool, but what are you doing building a business for this thing for? There's spending accounts are are not really focused right now and people have them, but there's other other people that do it. And then in April of 2016, there's this $33 million raised by Canadian insurers to build this digital platform for insurance to change insurance and to change health. And all of a sudden it made sense and it was really cool for us because people would say, well, what do you do? And we just mentioned these people and everybody know what we did. So they're marketing a $33 million made our business make sense. Since that, there's been I think there's probably five or six entrances of these new digital health insurance platforms that are coming into the market. And this is just in Canada. And the US is blowing up as well saying. Hey, this business. And I'm the first one to say, this business is absolutely archaic. The insurance business. So to be able to take it online and not just focus on millennial business, which we clearly don't. We focus on advisors and and building out that model. But the it's going to happen. You know, like people said Uber wasn't going to happen or Airbnb or any kind of any kind of technology that's taking out the brick and mortar presence. It's going to happen, it's a matter of whether you want it to happen to you or whether you want to do something to be able to evolve the space. But there's a ton of money going into the space space of insurance, health care, insure tech, Fintech. They're growing all over the place. So I think in the next three to five years, we are perfectly positioned. And we're going to grow. Very cool. Exciting times. So uh any uh parting words of wisdom or asks uh you would have the audience before before we uh check out? You know, it's. The only thing I'll ask of the audience before we check out is if I I like to talk on the phone. I mean, and if people want to talk and they want to hear the story of my HSA, that's our whole strategy right now. is we want to get it out there, we want people to know who we were. When we were building it, we built it a lot like a brick and mortar presence in the fact that we'd only advertise when we advertise. And we wouldn't really publicize that we're out there and right now our main objective is trying to get us known and try and get us out of the out of the industry. We are there, we are a force to be reckoned with and we are growing very well in our space. So anybody that wants to hear the story or reach out to me or just have any kind of kind of uh insight that would be great. I also wanted to mention. This is my final thought. The coolest part of technology from what I have found is that any VC that we talk to. or any founding member of the company, even our competitors in the brick and mortar space when I was in the insurance business. You talk to people, how you doing, great, everything's busy, yeah, it's a battle out there. And there was all this bullshit small talk. What I've found in the technology business is that every single person I talk to, regardless of whether they're a technologist, whether they're a financial back, whatever, they always leave the conversation is with what can I do to help you? And they they're dead serious, they mean that. And it's it's a very cool industry in the fact that they're just everybody seems to be wanting to help others within the space. Even their even if they're competitive. So that's what I'll leave the conversation with is that I want to help others in this in this space. or in the technology, I want to be one of those people that say, what can I do to help you? Awesome. And if people are interested in having uh services from my HSA. Is that something they can approach their broker with? And uh maybe for also my knowledge is there any is there some way that they can advocate for whoever they're using for their broker to to get my my HSA as a part of their portfolio? What would that look like? Absolutely, so a lot of the advisors that we do get come from clients that want to be use and try the my HSA system. Uh so if you're interested in it. We are not a direct market, we do not sell direct to consumer. We only sell to advisors. But we're not exclusive to advisors, we have a lot of advisors in the different jurisdictions, so if you want to get out, try the my HSA platform. Absolutely talk to myself or talk to the advisor. Okay. And if people would like to follow you and connect with you, uh obviously if you haven't reached out to them on LinkedIn already, they can probably find you there. Anywhere else uh contact info that you'd like to leave for people to reach out to you? They can get me get me on LinkedIn, you can uh Tim at my HSA secure.com is my email address. send me an email anytime. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming on, Tim and all the best uh for the future growth of the company. Thank you, Todd, appreciate it. Thanks for the time.