ERP039: Mark Colgate - The Science of Service

Welcome to Evolved Radio where we explore the evolution of business and technology. On the podcast today is Mark Colgate, who is professor of Service Excellence at the University of Victoria Gustavson School of Business. Mark is also the author of Science of Service, the proven formula to drive customer loyalty and stand out from the crowd. Today we're going to be discussing some frameworks and methodology for improving service and how you can drive a service-based culture into your organization, so stick around. If you enjoy the show, be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcast from. Also, be sure to check out the webpage evolvedmgmt.com/podcast for show notes, links to my guests, and to check out previous episodes. Now, let's get started. And joining me on the podcast today is Mark Colgate. Thanks for joining me, Mark. Thanks for having me on, Todd. So today we're talking about service, which is an incredibly important topic for pretty much anybody that works. Uh someone in some way is either serving someone internally or serving a client. Uh so a very applicable topic and uh you're uh certainly an expert in this, uh PhD in fact. So uh I'd love to to get your insights on this if you maybe want to get us started. Give us a quick background on yourself and uh how you ended up focusing on service. Yeah, fantastic, uh great, great question. It's always good to know someone's background, right, because um gives them a bit more credibility. So really I've been sort of uh studying and researching this now for about 30 years, which is uh which has gone very quickly. So the the idea really is uh kind of mixing. Uh academic research with practical uh implications and and from day one I really always had that that twist in terms of. You know, how can you do research that uh is usable by organizations? So, um I first started being a professor in New Zealand uh in the 1990s. Um and you know, my focus from from day one is, you know, how can I understand, you know, quality in the eyes of the customer? Uh and help organizations use that research, um, you know, to really advance their ability to execute great customer service as well. And I think it's kind of interesting because, you know, we know there is a science behind, you know, biology. Psychology, economics, you know, so many areas uh you know, in in our lives, which we know there's a robust science. And and it's used every day, um but the same is actually true for customer service. There's a, you know, it's it's a young science when we compare it to something like economics, it's maybe only 50 years old. Which I think makes it quite exciting as well, but there is still a science out there and organizations. Uh should be using that science to advance how they serve their customers. And so, you know, it taps into so many different areas, you know, social uh social psychology, uh service. Service management, human resources and by enabling organizations to have that robust science in their hands. Uh they can do a better job of serving their uh their customer. So I've been doing this now for for quite a long time and uh. And I love it mainly mainly because, you know, as you said at the beginning, everyone in some way is touched by service, but also most people don't know the science of service. So being able to help organizations understand what that science is and use that science, um, you know, enables organizations to, you know, push their level of service just a little bit higher. Yeah, that's great. I I love the idea that it can be scientific. Uh based, have that rigor to it. It's a lot like management in that way, I think that people. Sort of treat it as something that feels sort of touchy feely and you don't really know what it is until you until you experience it. So therefore it's difficult to train or coach someone against that. So I love the idea that that you're sort of sort of running counter to that that there are some things and I think this is also a bit of a growing movement. Like people focus a lot more on metrics as a measurement for what what the the client feels or the the customer feels from from their service experience. So I think the tide maybe is turning. Um what would be your sort of definition of what defines quality service? So, uh obviously it's always, you know, quality in the eyes of the customer. So I think you, you know, first of all, your your measurement uh insight is a really important one. I mean, you know, being able to understand are, you know, do customers actually say we're delivering a great service experience? That's the first thing, it's not whether we think we're doing a great job, it's whether they. So being able to track the service experience uh over time and to see whether you're getting better at it, that's a huge part of the science. Um, I lean very heavily on a framework called the three Rs in the in the book, which is basically there's been, you know, sort of a a long list of research. Over 10,000 articles written on, you know, what is quality in the eyes of the customer and uh it it comes down to the three Rs. Of reliability, responsiveness and relationships and it's the framework that I suggest organizations adopt. And a lot of organizations have adopted it. Basically, customers say first of all, the most important of the three Rs is you need to be reliable. You need to keep your promises, you need to handle, you know, customer complaints. Uh when they come along, uh you need to have the right knowledge to answer my questions correctly. And consistency is a huge piece as well, you know, am I going to get a consistent answer? From one area of the organization and from one employee, um to to another. So that's the first and most important R. And it sounds pretty basic, right, but often we get let down by organizations. Even keeping their their basic promises and then responsiveness is speed and efficiency. Um keeping the customer informed, uh you know, positivity. Willingness to answer customer's questions when they have a question. You know, and basically being responsive in terms of what they think is a reasonable time to respond to email requests, live chat. Um it goes way beyond that. You know, huge part is what I call cognitive control, which is giving customers control. In terms of, you know, how long is this process going to take if there's a delay in the process? Telling me about the delay before I find out for myself, we love it when organizations keep us informed along the way. Uh as well and then the last R is uh is relationships. Um it's the great differentiator, even though reliability and responsiveness are the most important two Rs. Because if you don't get those two right, relationships don't get the shine that they deserve. Um most organizations are, you know, pretty good at the first two. It's really the the ability to personalize the experience, make the customer feel important, um, you know, when you do that and the other two Rs then, you know, you're probably in those very handful of organizations. Uh in in North America that uh are delivering service excellence on a consistent basis. And so I think that consistency is the is the critical bit. Right, most organizations can do it, um, you know, with you know, in some uh service interactions. But can you do it with virtually all of your customers every single day? Yeah, this is fantastic. I love the the simplicity of of the three Rs and and I think um the one that that strikes me the most. Because I I feel like I end up talking to people a lot about this is responsiveness. And I think people get caught in this idea, especially what I I tend to see is in the technical industry where people say, well, I don't have a fix for that yet. So I won't contact the client. And I often tell people, you buy a lot of grace just by by communicating. So you say to someone, you know, okay, this will be resolved in an hour. And then you get to 45 minutes, you want to call them back and say, look, you know, it might not be. In an hour, maybe it'll be another two hours from now, is that fine? And they usually go, not great, but okay, whatever. Versus kind of leaving them in the black hole of no communication and they end up very angry. So the actual time to resolve something is kind of secondary to the cadence of communication that you keep in keeping the the the customer updated and informed. So uh what was the term that you used for that, the cognitive control? So it's called cognitive control. So basically there's kind of two kinds of control, there's behavioral control when you give customers choices. Um but we can't we don't often have the ability to give customers a choice because we, you know, we're providing the service for them. And so cognitive control is where they feel like they're in control by providing them with information. So they know exactly what's going on and so I think your example. Uh is perfect, right, by telling someone, hey, look, I can't deliver it within the hour, you know, I it's more likely to be three hours. You're right, they're still not still not happy about it, but they absolutely know what's going on. Whereas, you know, when you leave them in that black hole as you called it, you know, they're feeling anxious and stressed and, you know, they kind of wonder, you know, what's happening next. And I think I think you're right, organizations are really bad at this. I think probably for two reasons, one, they think the customer doesn't need to know. Uh and so they don't tell them or they think the customer does know. And so they don't tell them in both cases, the customer really wants to know. And then, you know, a really simple example, you know, if you're if you're waiting for a flight. And it gets delayed and they don't tell you how long the delay is, uh and they don't keep you informed. You know, you're very anxious, right, and even though you can't control when the plane takes off, just knowing that. Uh is crucial, whereas in scenario B where they tell you, we estimate a two-hour delay and they give you updates every 15 minutes. You know, you feel so much better. But in both cases, you you can't do anything about it, but in the second case, you feel so much more in control. Yeah, that's a great example as well. Uh the other one, um the final one, relationships. I think people tend to probably place this higher in the tiers. So I find that that that is maybe a a bit of a fake out for people. Like people always talk about, you know, people-to-people relationships and it's critical to sort of the maintenance and the loyalty of those relationships. But in that in sort of how you structure those three Rs, it talks about how uh that drives the relationship deeper. And you get that that level of loyalty, but that's not where you start, right? So I think that's an important concept for people to understand as well is that that gives you the the long-term impact. But it's not the first thing that people look for. No, that's right. The uh, you know, and if you're reliable, you start building the relationship already. So they're not the three Rs aren't mutually exclusive. But, you know, if you're if you're personalizing the experience and you're working hard uh to make the customer feel important, but you're unreliable or you're slow and and inefficient in delivering service. Then, you know, that relationship piece will never get the shine that it deserves. Yeah, that's great. And you have a another um concept, the fame model. Do you want to do you want to expand on that as well? Yeah, so the fame the fame model is really uh a way of understanding everything an organization needs to do uh to deliver great service. So the the three Rs is actually the F, which is the, you know, which is the framework that organizations need to adopt. To get the ball rolling. Uh you know, from day one, if you understand the three Rs, you can roll it out across across the organization. So that's the F of the fame uh model. The A is build accountability, you know, the uh the holy grail of any. Uh service culture is when every employee feels accountable for delivering uh great customer service. You can't tell someone they're accountable, uh because they will reject that. You can only build accountability. So you need to hardwire accountability across the organization by being really clear in your expectations uh in in in what you need for them. And how it will help them grow in terms of, you know, their career and their ability to achieve their goals. If you disconnect uh the organization's goals from the employees uh aspirations and and and dreams. Then, you know, they'll never be up for delivering great service. And then uh empowerment, uh employees. Don't enjoy being micromanaged, so your opportunity to build accountability by uh empowering them to self-direct their own work and not having to run to a manager all the time. Uh is is crucial for accountability. And then finally, accountability is built um through feedback. Uh consistent, you know, consistently turning up, observing employees in their service roles, giving them feedback so they can be a little bit better. Those three things really, really build accountability. You just by telling someone that accountable, uh that they will reject that. Because it's like, well, why, what's in it for me? But if you are clear with your expectations, you connect it to, you know, their careers. You give them autonomy, uh and you coach them so they can raise their game. Uh that's a great way of building accountability. So that's the F is the framework, the three Rs. The A is the accountability. The M is the moments of power. This is how you elevate um service every single day. And so, um the the moments of power about uh how do you actually become better at reliability? How do you actually become better at responsiveness, how do you become better at building relationships? So in my research, there's some really quite phenomenal uh research out there. Uh on on, you know, how to actually people get better every single day. So for example, expertise, there is a there's a there's a. 50-year science on how to people become experts at delivering great service. And it revolves around um, you know, pushing people outside their comfort zones, getting them to practice, um, setting them clear goals. And then giving them feedback uh along the way. So the moments of power are, you know, when you actually speak to a customer, what are the moments that you have to elevate service? So that you're always getting a little bit better at delivering uh delivering service. And then the E uh is I think probably the thing that most organizations miss. Uh so the E is the endurance piece, how do you keep going when most other organizations? Have very clear service goals, but they've uh they decided there's something else they want to focus on or the CEO changes and they and they focus on something else. Or they get bad customer service scores and so they give up the ghost of uh of delivering great service. The E is the endurance bit. And so the the endurance bit is really uh three parts. Number one, it's the coaching, which I mentioned already. If you turn up and continually coach your employees to always deliver better service, uh then service will endure. Because you're giving them feedback about the things they're doing well and the things they can improve. And so they'll always get a little bit better. Uh and then commitments, creating commitments uh within the organization. So you always deliver better service. So, you know, Ritz Carlton, for example, have their daily lineup where every team meets to talk about customer service every single day. Those kind of commitments, if you create those commitments in the organization, habits, rituals. Then again, you're more likely to persist than an organization that doesn't. And then finally, voice of the customer. The last way to endure is to continually collect that measurement that you mentioned earlier on, Kane. Um, you know, passing those measurements back to employees, giving them the voice of the customer so they truly understand uh exactly what the customer is thinking and feeling about that service. Uh and that keeps the dream alive, you know, if you if you don't pass the voice of the customer back to the employee. They truly forget, you know, why they're there and the difference that they can make. So the F is the framework of the three Rs, the A is build the accountability, the M is the moments of power. Where you can elevate your service by using the science of service a little bit more. And the E is the endurance, how do you keep it going when most other organizations give up? And I think if organizations use all of those four parts, uh they they will stand out from everyone else. Awesome. Appreciate the summary at the end there as well. Uh a couple of points I wanted to hit on here, accountability is something that comes up all the time. In the groups that I'm working with and and I think this is a hallmark for for management and especially junior managers. They really struggle with I instructed people how to do things, what I expect of them and, you know, no one's accountable to it. How do I make people accountable is a question I get a lot. And the response unfortunately that I give them is you cannot make anyone accountable. You have to support them to become accountable, it has to be an intrinsically driven uh motivation for them. So I think that's a really important one and I think you you laid out uh some great uh advice on how to produce that accountability. It has to be communicating expectations and then holding people accountable and coaching them towards those expectations. If they're not accountable and they don't sort of adhere to their own accountability, then other things may happen. But it it it won't happen just by saying I expect you to do X and then it'll just magically happen. And and they'll because they'll instantly say, well, what's in it for me? Right, and so you've you've got to make that clear connection that, you know, you by delivering great service, you know, that your your team gets better. Your the organization wins, but most importantly, uh they they are going to have a better career, right? And they're going to achieve their goals they laid out uh when they joined the organization. So I think it's, you know, connecting that service piece of the puzzle with the employee's aspirations as well. Yeah, that's fantastic. The other one was endurance. And I think this is uh an important one for people is if they're trying to sort of alter their culture. And and have uh a service-based culture develop within their organization. I think the part that people miss is that they they treat it as kind of a a two-week sprint. And like, you know, hey, we're going to make our service levels better and and and then uh they sort of the the energy. Starts to bleed out of that initiative and then it falls off the table. And and I think the endurance piece is is critical for this and and you laid it out really well. That it has to be embedded in the culture, it has to be something that is lived daily. Otherwise, it's it tends to lose steam. Uh so that's that's a great one as well. Yeah, no, and and I think, you know, the one of the analogies I use in my uh in my book Science of Service is, you know, like a a you know, a runner. You know, someone who's want to who wants to run a 10 km race, um, you know, we absolutely know that they, you know, they need to have clear goals. They need to build in habits and and commitments and, you know, recognize and reward themselves. When they've achieved their goals. But for some reason, you know, we don't apply the same principles, uh you know, when when it comes to customer service. It's it's, you know, if we have very clear measures, if we have very clear commitments and habits and we celebrate and recognize success. You know, we will always get better um at delivering great service. Just like a runner who measures their times, you know, who has a coach, uh who has very clear habits and commitments. Uh and then celebrate success. They're very likely to run a better time as well. So, you know, I I think we know these things to be true in other areas of our lives. But for some reason, when it becomes, you know, particularly for customer service, uh we seem to forget those principles to be true as well. Exactly. As as we started in the beginning, the the science of it uh is just as applicable. This is not some mystical art. There there's definitely some science to it. That's fantastic. Um maybe just as a as a sort of a final takeaway. Um what would you advise to someone, say, a leader of an organization or a manager of a team that that wants to um have an initiative for improving service? What would you lay out as sort of a three-week or a four-week uh get up plan, something that they can they can sort of scratch down some notes? What what should they focus on? Obviously, the first would be reading your book, Science of Service, which we'll link to in the show notes. Yeah, but uh what what would you suggest to them as as getting started plan? You know, executive commitment is critical. Uh I mean, I think if you can win over uh you know, and and get a project leader and uh a team of people, a community of practice, uh where you've got some executive commitment from the beginning, that's such an incredible start. You know, you you can start bottom up, you can start, you know, one area of an organization, which is kind of the the shining light and the bright star that kind of shows other people. Uh but that's a much harder, that's a much harder journey than where you get, you know, some executives at the beginning buying into it, throwing their commitment behind it, developing a community of practice. And then and then as I said, I, you know, week two after you've got executive commitment. A week one, uh hopefully that'll only take a week is uh is roll out the three Rs, right? The what I love about the three Rs as you said, they're so simple and you can literally roll them out across any team. Uh and and get them to own it and to say, well, what what's reliability in our world? What do customers say about our ability as a team to be reliable? And then you can do that in week two and then week three, you could say, what's responsiveness in our world, what do customers say about our ability to be responsive? And then, you know, and develop some ideas to be better at responsiveness and then, you know, week four. Uh how do we build stronger relationships, what are customers saying about our ability to personalize the experience, uh and, you know, how can we get better at that, right? And every week, you know, uh come up with some new creative ideas about how to be more reliable. More responsive, uh and build stronger relationships. And I think that would be that would be a great start in terms of your your first month. Because if you just speak about customer service for the first month without actually doing anything, you know, you can kind of lose sight of your goal pretty quickly. But if you can get some early wins and get everyone to understand quality in the eyes of the customer through the three Rs. That's a really simple, simple start and you can start building momentum uh from there. And then then as you said, and then after that, you can start thinking about collecting measures, uh identifying, you know, gaps. Um, you know, start thinking about introducing coaching, building some more habits and rituals. But that that's what I would do in the first that's what I would do in the first month. That's fantastic. All right, well, this has been uh awesome. I really appreciate your your insights on this and as I said, we'll link to your book. Uh the science of service in the show notes. Uh any parting words of wisdom that you would have for for the audience? Yeah, I would just really uh summary of our conversation that, you know, don't rely on um kind of, you know, what you've been doing in the past. Don't think customer service just about the smile school and and I think as you said at the beginning, it's like a two-week a two-week dash. Realize that it's uh it's a journey. It will take a number of years to build uh a strong service system and to use the science. But I think that's a fantastic thing. Because if you really want to separate yourself out from everyone else, then, you know, the more you build a strong service system where you've got commitments and you've built accountability. And you're using coaching, then obviously you've put in things in place that other organizations will find it really hard to replicate. And at the end of the day. Uh even though I've spoken about the three Rs of reliability, responsiveness, relationships, it's all about the fourth R, which is results. If you can't generate better results, profitability, higher revenue, higher levels of customer service, higher levels of employee engagement. Then then we're wasting our time. And uh and so how we do that is by, you know, building a strong service system rather than relying on a few interventions here and there. That don't really have any science or substance behind them. Excellent. And if uh people want to follow you on social, is there any streams that you're most active in? Yeah, Twitter. So yeah, uh yeah, Mark Colgate um on Twitter, um that's where I'm most active. Awesome. Well, thanks for your time today, Mark, and uh all the best. Thanks for having me on.