Beyond Service: AI's Role in Business Efficiency - ERP137

Todd Kane: My guest today is Victor Lopez. Victor is an interesting profile, philosophy major at UC Santa Cruz, law degree from Cornell. He spent his, uh, first part of his career as an attorney structuring complex financial transactions, then moved into private credit at Blue Owl Capital. What he continued to observe was that the financial tools most businesses were using were clunky and left a lot to be desired, so he decided to create a solution. That observation is eventually what became Flexpoint, the payments company he co-founded with Sam Kushner. Victor and I hit it off when we were talking about MSPs approach to AI and, and it needs some work. All of the focus that the tend to put on service delivery, and we wanted to talk a bit about how AI can improve business operations. Victor, welcome to the show. Victor Lopez: Thanks for having me, Todd. Yeah, that's, I appreciate, having a chance to chat. it's funny, you had… I think recently you had, Michael Fass on the, on the podcast, and he had this phrase, 'cause I think he started his career as an attorney too, and he had this phrase, it's like, "The accidental lawyer." So I, I think I'm gonna take that, steal that, and, uh, coin it myself as well. Todd Kane: That's right. Usually in this industry we talk about accidental project managers, but, uh, there's definitely a few accidental lawyers, uh, showing up as well. So yeah. Victor Lopez: They're everywhere. They're everywhere. Todd Kane: yeah. Uh, so you had an unusual path into the MSP ecosystem and payments. Um, uh, philosophy, then law, and then credit, uh, private credit at Blue Owl, then you started Flexpoint. I'm curious, what was the moment or the deal or the conversation that you saw at Blue Owl where it s- sort of clicked and you were like, "Huh, financial plumbing for small businesses is broken. I should probably do something about this"? Victor Lopez: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I wish it was that simple, and I wish it was, hey, like the-- there was this aha moment that happened at this point in time that I could point to. Um, but the reality, uh, of it is it was a sequence of events over the course of, you know, a lot of time. But if I had to point to one, uh, specific event, it, it's probably 2018, um, what is now probably very well-known in the MSP market and just more broadly. But in 2018, Thoma Bravo acquired ConnectWise. And so for, you know, almost 30-plus years, ConnectWise was privately held by Arne Bellini and his brother. Um, and in 2018, Thoma Bravo acquired that business, and we at Blue Owl, used to be called Owl Rock before Blue Owl, but that's a story for another day. Um, we, uh, financed that transaction. So we, um, you know, there was a lot of, uh, there was a lot of that went into that, including the, the merger of Continuum into ConnectWise. But, um, that was sort of the first time all of us really spent a lot of time in this, you know, at the time, managed service provider, IT services. Um, honestly, the first time I heard about the space, it took me a while to figure out what an MSP actually does 'cause it seemed like there was 30 different things, and then it was even more difficult to wrap my head around this thing called the PSA that every MSP runs their business on. And um, you know, the irony of it all was I, I could not wrap my head around in those early days, why would you have in this tool that, you know, does all this, all these things, ticketing, et cetera, why do you have billing in there? Like you have ITSM, you know, in the enterprise where, where you run your IT, but like, why is this like financial aspect in this ticketing tool? And so that was kind of the beginning of like, okay, let, let's unwrap that. Let's understand why this is the case and, you know, why it's become like this over the years. Um, and I think that was like a, a big, um, you know, found-foundational thought in terms of how we think about, you know, MSPs and how they run their businesses today. But I think it, it kinda goes back to that, you know, the, the moment of asking the question like, "Well, why, why are you creating invoices in the tool that, you know, is managing your projects and, you know, taking tickets and your, your technicians are using versus, you know, your, your accounting folks? Why, why aren't there, you know, traditional ERPs for lack of a better term?" Todd Kane: So the, the alternative being billing f- directly from the accounting fla- platform would have been your assumption then? Victor Lopez: Or, or not even that. I think, um, I mean, you look at like the majority of industries, like where you have vertical specific tools. So like take like field services or, you know, other markets, um, in the healthcare space, for example, and like the tools that they use are all-encompassing. Yes, they do billing, but it's very, um, it's very separated in terms of there's the accounting is happening in the same tool. There's the ERP, the financial aspect of it. Maybe there's a CRM, et cetera. But in, in the MSP world with the PSA, you still need an accounting software, right? Like you can't run your accounting and financial books through the PSA. And so this, uh, halfway, uh, to the finish line, at least in my mind, I'm sure it's, it's not, uh, the, the opinion of everyone in the market, but you know, it's like there's no accounting here. You, you need another tool, but there is this whole financial aspect. And some of them, right, it's not the topic of conversation today. Some of them do it much better than others in terms of their, uh, level of sophistication around that, that segment. Todd Kane: Yeah. right, so, uh, the, the AI play, uh, we were talking about, uh, you know, there's, there's a lot of discussion about AI in the industry, but you're right. Like, I'd not really thought about this until we connected and talk about it, that the, probably the vast majority of that, like 80% of that conversation is around ticket management, triage, helping techs, and sure, like that stuff is important and useful, but it's also, uh, becoming somewhat pervasive. Like, I, I joke about this a lot that like, uh, when I ask people what they want AI to do in their business, they talk about all the things that are currently available in multiple tools, right? Like, I'm Victor Lopez: Yeah Todd Kane: G- go get those things then," right? So what would be the alternatives that, uh, from a backend operation standpoint that, that you would suggest that people are maybe less aware of where AI could help them with their business? Victor Lopez: Yeah, and I, I, I agree with you. I don't-- So I, I think the-- What I do wanna sort of preface the, the thought with is I don't think there's a right or wrong approach. I, I don't-- I, I, I do think every single MSP owner out there, um, should be thinking about how AI is gonna impact their business regardless of the function. And it, it, it makes a ton of sense just logically why, um, why folks are so focused on the service delivery side of things. I mean, you talk to most MSP owners, and that's what gets them excited. That's the stuff that they like to do, right? So th-this is kind of the, the core bread and butter. And so when you think about everything else, and so what I mean by everything else is all the operational things that, you know, are either tangentially rela-related to service delivery or just not related at all but, you know, part of the business. So I'm talking about things like, you know, obviously like accounts receivable, collecting payments, making payments, uh, doing payroll, you know, running the business, the, the, the actual running the business side of things outside of service delivery. And so it's, it's-- To me, it's not surprising that the focus is on service delivery. I think that's, you know, the vast, vast majority of the market. And so, um, I think My perspective is, yes, that is important. Everyone should be focused on that, and everyone should definitely, um, you know, be spending time there to see how that's going to improve their business. But they should not stop there. They should continue the conversation, understand, hey, where else can AI really have a, an impact of my bus- on, on my business? And, you know, I was, um, I was at Evolve, which, you know, is these quarterly meetings with peer groups, um, uh, just recently at the end of May in Chicago. I was having this conversation, you know, with just a group of, of, um, MSPs in a peer group. Um, and the, the focus of the conversation really focused on, well, there's all these things when it comes to service delivery, and that's going to improve your gross margin. These are great things that you should be focused on. Um, absolutely, they're fun, exciting toys. You know, they're shiny objects that are gonna have improvements. But let's talk about the boring stuff, the stuff that's, you know, from, from a financial standpoint, it's the stuff that's gonna improve, uh, you know, your operational efficiency, your EBITDA, right? Like this is, this is the, the thing that every business owner in the space is either thinking about or, uh, if they're not thinking about it, they're hearing everyone talk about it. It's like, how do you improve your EBITDA? And so that, that, that's really the conversation from, from my standpoint is you don't pick one or the other. It's let's just not stop the conversation with service delivery, and let's see where, um, the possibilities are, um, on, on the operational side. And so just, you know, maybe some areas where we've seen folks have success. And again, I, I say this with the, the caveat that this market, the, the just the impact that AI is having in this segment of the market is evolving very, very quickly. Like, what's happened three months ago is very different from what's gonna happen six months ago. I mean, like, I mean, let's just t-talk about, like, the market generally. Like Claude, Claude, uh, CoWork didn't exist in like December of last year, right? They-- It came out in January. So it's like the evolution of the market and as it trickles down to our space, um, I think is, is, is, um, is, is, is very fast-moving. But I think in-- from, from an MSP standpoint and like the operational side, the way I think about this is in broad categories. It's if you're an MSP, you know, your typical MSP, I think the stat out there, you, you maybe have better stats than me, but, um, eighty percent of the market does two and a half million dollars of revenue or less per year. Some-somewhere around there, right? Like roughly speaking. Todd Kane: 90% is under a million, yeah Victor Lopez: N-- yes, even more accurate. Okay. Todd Kane: Yep Victor Lopez: Um, and so if you think about the, the typical profile of an MSP in that segment, it's an owner-operator who is doing everything themselves outside of the service delivery. They might have some techs, et cetera, but when it comes to everything else, they're typically handling it themselves. They might have an outsourced bookkeeper, for example. They might have an office manager, for example. Um, and so when I have these conversations with business owners, the question I always ask is like, "Well, sit down and write down all the things that you currently do today, uh, that are not generating revenue for you." Okay? And so that's generally a very long list. Um, and so then it's in, in way of, you know, sort of optimization. So there's obviously, um, the sales and marketing side, which, you know, hopefully is generating revenue, but I'm talking about creating payroll, you know, sitting down policies, like everything from like HR to like billing, e- all these giant categories which generally fall into the lap of the business owner. Obviously, um, for MSPs that are larger than the typical profile, they generally have folks who that's their full-time job. We work with an MSP who has 40 people in their accounts receivable department. So I mean, that's, that's a lot of people, right? Gives you the size of a, of a business. But that's generally how I, I think about it, and I w- when I encourage business owners to think about how AI can impact the rest of their business, it's generally sit down and just write down everything that you're doing today, every area of the business that doesn't generate revenue, and that's where the focus should be Todd Kane: Yeah, I think this is really important too, 'cause this is almost an extension of what I think should happen earlier on in the business. Like, one of the things that I encourage people to think about outsourcing or, uh, hiring away or delegating out in their business, uh, first is finance becau- and two reasons. One, there's probably someone more qualified, like they at least they, they may not be a CPA, but, uh, they, they, uh, they, they at least have some experience with bookkeeping and understand Victor Lopez: Yeah. Todd Kane: accounting, uh, transactions and how to m- you know, uh, to reconcile things, all of that. Uh, so that's an important piece I think to get off, off their plate. Plus, I find most small business owners don't enjoy this work, right? So they tend to procrastinate and avoid it, and then they're like, "Oh, crap, uh, I got like, uh, $400,000 in AR over the past three months. I guess I should chase some of this down," right? Like, people can get in, in some pretty tight spots by not spending the appropriate time to focus on these things. But to your point, like, yes, you should probably delegate this stuff to a bookkeeper at the very least and get started there. you might want some professional help that is… Again, like a lot of people tend to think of, "Well, I've got an accountant, and he checks on the books like every, every quarter or usually more like every year, and kind of Victor Lopez: Yeah. Todd Kane: I need to do." Like Victor Lopez: Yeah Todd Kane: you kind of need a higher cadence of visibility on your books, right? So if Victor Lopez: It's very reactive, yeah Todd Kane: Yeah, yeah, so if you can source that onto somebody else, then that tends to benefit your business tremendously, more than I think people really recognize. But to your point, like there's, there's… You can go further down, right? Like now you can actually pull things off of your bookkeeper so they're not spending, you know, eight hours a week chasing people and following up on AR either. Like, there's potentially automation opportunities there too. Victor Lopez: Absolutely. And, and see, and, and I think that's, like, a key part of all of this, especially as you think about sort of ag-agentic AI. Um, I think the real, uh, sort of hesitancy and fear that everyone has, I mean, we have… I have this myself, is like, "Hey, like, the robots are coming to take our jobs," right? I think that's, that's the, the big fear. And so, um, when, when you think about service delivery, I, I don't think any MSP owner, and maybe I'm wrong here, this is overgeneralization, uh, is thinking about, um, AI agents that are gonna totally take over the jobs of their techs. I, I, I just don't think that's where the conversation is today. I think what they're looking to do is make their techs more efficient, maybe have fewer techs than, than needed to serve the same number of clients, but not replace their techs. Now, when you flip that conversation to, um, the business owner who, again, is going through their spreadsheets once a week, if, if that, picking up the phone, having a super awkward conversation with their client, saying, "Hey, like, you haven't sent that check in, like, two months. What's going on?" That's not a jo- that's not a person's job they're replacing potentially with, with AI, right? That's a function of their job as a business owner that they, to your point, didn't-- do not wanna be doing. I mean, you poll any business owner, and I guarantee you nine out of 10 at least will say, "Hey, like, I do not wanna be doing these things. These are not the things that bring me joy." You know, we talk about the zone of genius, the things you're good at and the things you actually wanna be doing, and I would take a very big wager that the majority of folks that have gone into the business of IT services or just MSPs generally do not have a zone of genius that overlaps with, uh, things like AR or things like running payroll, et cetera. Todd Kane: Pacing down checks is not high on the list, right? Victor Lopez: Yes. Yes. I, I mean, honestly, I don't know who's that, who- whose list, you know, whose zone of genius that would be high on the list for. I'm sure there's someone out there in the universe who, like, that's… I love to do it. But, um, you know, w- without being too tongue in cheek on it, like, when you think about the robots and the jobs they could potentially replace if we get to that point, like, we should start with all the things that people don't wanna do, right? Like, things that we, like, no one actually wants to be doing Speaker: Tired of fighting the MSP fires alone? The Opsleader Pro group connects service delivery professionals who understand your daily challenges. From KPIs and workflows to career planning and team management, Opsleader Pro has systems for you to use. Join operations leaders from successful MSPs who are sharing real solutions for managing client expectations, optimizing service delivery, and making your service delivery team as effective as possible. Opsleader Pro, 'cause your service desk deserves more than just survival mode. Visit opsleader.co. That's O-P-S leader dot C-O to apply to join the public community. Todd Kane: Now obviously in these recommendations, uh, I think in this area especially, like there is always, uh, the advice of human in the loop, right? Like I don't think you wanna just completely abdicate your, your financial management and, and your, your AR and AP follow-up, uh, to, to, uh, to a bot without some oversight. Uh, Victor Lopez: Yeah Todd Kane: you know, I, I s- I see that a lot of MSP owners are a little hesitant around implementation of AI and kinda h- handing over the reins, even on a service side. And I think there would be even more hesitancy when it comes to finances of like, well, if it screws something up, that's not, that's not just like, uh, bad handling of a ticket. Like there's potentially a financial impact here as well. So like what is the thinking around controls for this? And, you know, how much oversight is required for, uh, for, for more business operations that has a potentially l- bigger blast radius for bad outcomes? Victor Lopez: Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think, um, you know, the, the big thing at the end of the day is, like, MSPs are service-based businesses, and so they, they are in the business of client relations. So whether, whether like it or not, at the end of the day, it's, you know, you're, you're servicing a client, and the relationship with those clients, um, is very important, and the industry as a whole is highly, highly relationship based. Um, and so I think you're totally right in terms of the, the relationships and the sensitivity, especially anytime you touch money, right? Like, anytime it's finance related, um, there's definitely a lot of sensitivity. And so, I mean, broadly speaking, I'll, I'll give you kind of two answers, how I think about it, you know, sort of holistically in terms of, you know, just as a business owner myself and, like, how other I, I think other folks are thinking about it, and then just, like, how we think about it at Flexpoint specifically. Um, but I, I think holistically, this is one of those things where, um, again, everything is evolving and changing so quickly. Um, I'll give you an example. Uh, when we started Flexpoint, you know, just over three years ago, the, um, the number of MSPs that were comfortable passing on credit card fees to their clients was probably You know, a tenth of where it is today. Now, every single conversation is, if I'm not doing this already, passing on credit card fees, how do I do it? So over the course of, you know, essentially three years. And so I think that's been, you know, and it's an example I always point to, that's been something that's changed pretty dramatically in the market. And so three years ago, we'd have conversations with MSP owners who'd be like, "No way. There's, there's absolutely no way. I'm not… That, that's tacky. Like, that's-- I'm not, you know, this isn't like a, a diner where you come in and here you have this, you know, surcharge on, on using a credit card. Like, you know, it's white glove service." Now it's like, you're, you're silly if you're not. And I think the big thing that has changed is, um, not just the perception of the MSP owner in terms of like, "Hey, like these are real dollars that I'm losing," but, um, in terms of their client base, it's so ubiquitous. It's everywhere now. You go to a restaurant, you go to check out. Like, it's, it's, it's almost difficult for me to find somewhere where if I wanna pay by a credit card, they're not gonna try and charge me a fee. Um, and so I think the evolution in something like that has really, uh, changed the perception, and I think the same thing can be said about AI. I think if anything, even faster. And so I think a lot of it's going to h- come down to, um, the folks that are in these roles at a client. So whether it's, um… And I'll just take the example of, of paying an invoice. Um, uh, i- if it's the people at your client who typically pay the invoices, cut the checks, um, I think they're all in a very similar position. They're all thinking about how AI is impacting their business. 'Cause listen, Todd, there, there's no business out there, um, and if there is, they're, they're probably not gonna be around for very long, who isn't currently thinking about how AI is gonna impact their business. And so I think it's still early. I think it's still early days in terms of how, um, you know, especially when it comes to the operational side of things, the fi- financial and finance side of things. Um, but I think it's going to be a, a very rapid evolution in how folks-- the, the comfort level of, of folks in terms of, you know, what can AI do? And so, um, uh, more, more practically, so like w- within, within Flexpoint, so we're, we're releasing AI agents that do a lot of this, right? And so like this is one of the biggest things that has come up in conversations with MSP owners. One of the functions of our, of our product is it, it will actually pick up the phone and call your client and say, "Hey, you haven't paid." And so this was super controversial when we first started talking to MSPs about this. Some of them were absolutely Nah, no way. Like you are-- I am not having a robot, a voice AI call my clients. Then there's another half that were like, "Sign me up today." Like, all those people that I need to call take time out of my calendar, and I want them to know, right, like within, within, within boundaries that they owe me something, and I don't want to waste my time doing that. So it was such a polarizing topic. But what we're finding now is even from when we first started having these conversations in the fall of last year to through developments or where we are now, that opinion has changed very dramatically. And I think it comes down to a couple basic concepts. One, I think, a-as I said earlier, it's a service-based business, it's relationship based. And so, um, I think the perception initially is like, well, if, if the robots are just gonna start calling everyone, they're gonna start calling my clients that I know are great clients, and it's gonna ruin my relationships. That's not gonna work. So w-we think about things in the extremes, right? That's just like our human nature. It's like, hey, like this is the worst case scenario. But when you distill it down into like the possibilities and get really, really precise and very, very specific around what it can do, that's where you start to unlock, okay, I'm comfortable with that. I'm comfortable with an agent that calls a very specific segment of my customers that I've pre-approved. They're able to escalate to me. They're not able to do anything like that, that as actual transaction without a human approving it. Okay, now I understand the comfort. So I think the big thing, and I think the big picture is we all need to, um, understand what are our limitations in terms of, you know, what are we comfortable with in terms of, you know, what, uh, what, what we will allow AI agents to do within our business. And that's gonna depend. That's gonna depend a lot on the business itself, the relationships they have. And I think ultimately very similar to the example of the credit card surcharging, passing on the fees, I think it's gonna be-- there's gonna be the, you know, the people that are ahead of the curve, they wanna get something like this done immediately to over time, which I think it's gonna take less than three years. I think this is gonna be, we're talking about twelve to s- to 18 months. This is going to be okay I'm, I'm doing this, but, like, this is normal because every day I get a phone call from my doctor's office, and it's a voice AI agent that's telling me all about my appointment, and it, it almost becomes, you know, second, second nature in the sense that, like, I'm interacting with agents in my daily life. And then the last thing I'll say on this, Todd, like, if you think about it and you switch, switch sides. So let's say I'm calling you, Todd, and I'm saying, "Hey, Todd, you haven't paid your invoice in a long time." If I pick up the phone and, you know, we have a relationship, it's awkward for both of us. It, it's not fun for you either. Whereas anytime I forget to pay a bill, if I get, you know, an automated voice, it's like, "Oh, okay, I appreciate that. Like, let me go do that." There's no awkwardness involved. I know I'm talking to… I, I know I'm not talking to a human on this side, so there's that psychological aspect of it that I think a lot of folks will appreciate over time Todd Kane: Yeah. Yeah, um, there. Uh, uh, it's funny, the, the polarization, I don't know the I don't know that I see it the same way as that it's, it's, it's becoming more ubiquitous, uh, and there's, the people are aligning on that. Um, I still feel that there's, there's still a strong polarization of a lot of people are like, "No, no, no, no. We, like, we're not having, uh, the, the inbound phone calls answered by AI." Yet I know a number of organizations where no one answers the phone anymore. And, and the… It's interesting because there's the split between the MSPs that believe this or not, and there's also a split between the clients that accept it and don't. And I don't know what it is. Like, obviously part of it is generational, right? Like you don't want, you know, uh, 60-something executives calling in and being answered by, by, by a bot in most cases, right? Like that's not, again, not universally true, but I think there are some demographic impacts of this. But it's weird how I find people have varying levels of success on, on, on, uh, on the utilization of this. That said, I think you're entirely right that the future of this, it will be more sort of bot i- interactions, and there's a benefit and a curse to that, I think. Uh, I think the, the psy… You're right, the psychological impact of that is, is totally different. But I think it's, it's the extension, again, of all the things that we're learning and enabling in service apply all the way down the line on business, right? Like we wanna talk about having AI support the techs and making them more capable so they can get more work done and offloading a lot of the menial work for them. Same thing when it comes to, uh, the, the finance group, right? Like we should be enabling them, and they don't have to go looking for reports. Like things happen on a trigger point or on some type of insight. Bot says, "Hey, like I notice these things. You know, do you want me to, uh… AR over 90 days has creeped up over X amount of dollars. Do you want me to start calling people?" Like, "Yes, go do that." Like, great. Cool, right? I think that that enablement of staff will just become much, much more natural over the, 12 to 18 months, as you say. Yeah. Victor Lopez: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think one, but one, one, one important distinction I'll make in just a comment that you said, you know, the, the group, you, you said the, the finance group. I think if we go back to the, the stat that you, you shared, right? 90% sub $1 million. Majority of MSPs that are doing sub $1 million, they don't have a group. They don't have a staff that's doing these things. And so it, it goes back to what I was saying around like it's the business owner. This is the person, right? Like they're not making their techs more efficient. It's like they're removing things from that. So I think that's a huge component of it. There's obviously the dollars and cents impact. There's, there's a big thing there. But unfortunately, and, and you probably know this Todd very well, is, you know, unfortunately a big area that MSP owners, you know, just an area where they just don't value the time in the same way is their own time, right? Like it's, it's easy that for them to say, "Well, Johnny my tech, um, you know, I get 10 more hours out of him and so I can make, you know, whatever," versus, you know, I, I, I get-- I free up 10 more hours in my time not doing, you know, the books or whatever. Um, it, it, they don't equate the time in the same way unfortunately but, um, you know, hopefully over time, uh, we get there Todd Kane: Yeah, I strongly agree with this. I, I wish people would value their time more. Um, and I think because owners have sort of a d- uh, a different gear, and they're perfectly comfortable to work a 60-hour, 80-hour week wh- when it's required, and that eventually sort of becomes the norm because they're like, "Well, you know, I, I don't necessarily have the money, uh, to hire additional staff," or, uh, whatever justification that they, they make for those things, not recognizing those investments will absolutely pay back, uh, in enablement within the group and probably create more profitability down the road. Uh, and if nothing else, just the quality of life matters, right? Like sure, you can hustle hard for, you know, five, even eight years sometimes, uh, and, and put in the hours and put in the sweat for, for building your business. But at some point, like, what is that for? Like, do you wanna spend the next 10 or 15 years of your life working 80 hours a week? Like, some people genuinely enjoy it, but you know, also, you wanna work on the things that give you a lot of joy and in that genius zone, right? That's probably not the menial work of business operations and just sorta pulling the levers and sending the emails and, and doing follow-ups. You wanna be focusing on, you know, developing an AI strategy, spending more time with clients. Like, sure, if you're gonna spend 80 hours a week in the business, figure out where that time is at least valuable. And, and, and as you noted, like to do that, you have to be able to offload the, the l- the more routine work. And, uh, as that should be done in service, it should be done in the business operations as well. Yeah. Victor Lopez: Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's, uh… A- and that's a huge part of it. So we had, I, I w- you know, a story I always tell is, like, you know, we had someone who literally their, their, their comment was, "Well, now I can go to my son's baseball game on the weekends." And it's like y- y- you kind of take those things for granted. It's like I don't, I don't sit there now and spend five hours on the weekend. And I say this as a business owner myself. It's like we're, we're always the first people to sacrifice when it comes to things. It's like, okay, someone has to do this. Well, I don't want to put it on my techs. I'm gonna go, you know, spend the weekend working on this, or, you know, I, I need to close the books or whatever. And it's like, okay, I'm gonna spend my time. So it's, uh, it's always, it always comes down, um, to, to the owner themselves. Todd Kane: Yep. Well, it's been great. Uh, really appreciate your, your coming on and, and, uh, getting-- nudging us to think more about, uh, automation, AI opportunities in, in the business further down the chain outside of service. So, uh, this has been awesome. Uh, uh, if, uh, people wanna chat with you or reach out to you, I'll link to you, uh, to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Uh, any other shout-outs or people, uh, uh, asks of the audience of, of where to direct them or to engage with you? Victor Lopez: Yeah, just, uh, find me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there. Um, but yeah, hopefully the, the main takeaway here and, and what I always like to, to leave around this is, you know, just start the conversation. There, there isn't something that, you know, there isn't a big thing that you have to do today. It's just like, hopefully this just starts the conversation around, okay, where else can AI really have an impact on my business? Todd Kane: Excellent. Thanks, Victor Victor Lopez: All right. Awesome. Thanks, Todd